Win the League Cup, win the league title
By Simon Rose
Some big clubs take the competition seriously
I don't know why I thought that Arsenal would beat Southampton in the League Cup, other than my usual optimistic realism. My default expectation is that we should find enough quality to overcome most opponents, but I should have spotted the signs in this case.
How many changes to our starting XI and voids of seniority would it take to put the contest in the balance? Would younger players selected to start genuinely be able to affect the result? Would our substitutes be sufficiently senior to drag the game back, should we concede first? Would there be enough appetite and hunger to qualify for a further match, or would the game be played like an obligation?
Arsene Wenger treats the League Cup as a free match, to rest key players and give the runts some game time. That's about it. The approach seems to be that if we win, great, but if not, let's hope the defeat isn't too bad, certainly not enough to irk the supporters too much.
Wenger views the competition as a relatively risk-free exercise in affording minutes on the pitch to squad players and youngsters. It keeps the experienced players mildly happy with some match action, while affording the nippers priceless exposure to a big crowd and occasion, without league points at stake.
But is that development? Are Arsenal's young players being developed through losing embarrassingly, under the weight of home expectation, while the miffed Arsenal support winces at them, or even boos? Is that character building? Does it help our kids to develop for an Arsenal future, or does it send them further down the path towards a two-year deal at Rotherham?
Arsenal supporters' natural instinct is to want Arsenal to fare as well as possible. We'd like to win trophies. Big clubs are meant to think big. Big means silverware. Sadly, we have been conditioned to accept that League Cup exits are acceptable, in the grander scheme of things.
We are left annually to parrot that such exits are for the greater long-term good, for the season's bigger hopes in chasing the major honours, like the league title and the Champions League. But this is a mirage for Arsenal.
When has getting needlessly knocked out of cup competitions improved Arsenal's league form? Arsenal rarely respond to an ignominious cup defeat by smashing the next opponents. We tend to follow unnecessary cup exits by flumping in the league for a few games. Early cup exits don't make Arsenal's season, they tend to break it.
For one, we've not won the league since 2004. There has been no conclusive proof for years that going out of the League Cup helps Arsenal, or that players genuinely learn anything from it. To repeatedly get turfed out of the competition once we play a decent side does not suggest that anything in particular is being learned from these episodes, other than how to lose the same sort of match the following season too.
Secondly, our title rivals take the League Cup more seriously than Arsenal do. And they win it. And they use it as a stepping stone to a prolonged title challenge. When you look at recent League Cup winners and recent Premier League winners, the two are often one and the same.
Four times since 2005, the League Cup winners have gone on to win the Premier League as well. Chelsea in 2005 and 2015, Utd in 2009 and City in 2014. There is a direct correlation between the top clubs that field strong sides in the League Cup, those that win the competition and those that use it as a validated stepping stone to build confidence and motivation, to go on and win the Premier League.
Arsenal use League Cup matches like friendlies. In advance, League Cup matches give you the same buzz as pre-season games, when you think some of Arsenal's big guns might be rolled out, yet the line-up turns out in truth to be an Arsenal XI. You start off dreaming of Wembley and you quickly realise that if we concede first we are going to get done over.
As soon as Mourinho took over at Old Trafford, I put money on Utd winning the League Cup. Not because I want them to, but because Mourinho always targets winning the League Cup as the backbone for winning the league title. Nothing breeds success like success.
Mourinho won the League Cup in his first season at Chelsea, on the way to winning the title too. In his second stint at Stamford Bridge, Mourinho won the League Cup again in his second season. And then followed it up by winning the title that season, again.
Mourinho might be a piece of excrement, but he knows the value of taking the League Cup seriously. United are now in the semis, with a final against Liverpool likely. Both - rightly or wrongly - will fancy their chances to pick up the League Cup en route to the title.
In the meantime, Arsenal treat the League Cup with a thinly-veiled disdain. The League Cup is a senior competition and a genuine domestic trophy, which some top clubs take seriously. They field senior players and use it as a verifiable stepping stone for going on to win the Premier League too.
The League Cup is not some louche affair, cringeful to be associated with. I've yet to see any club win it and looked gutted. Liverpool won two League Cups on penalties, after poor displays against Birmingham City and Cardiff City. They still looked delighted, as they danced around with the trophy. Rather than use the competition as cheap friendlies, by fielding little more than representative XIs, if Arsenal genuinely want to win the league title they would do well next season to target winning the League Cup first.
2nd December 2016 09:00:00
Comments and Reaction
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Smithy 8:13am 2nd Dec 2016
Great article about ug and um the Arsenal medical cavemen in the daily mail. The bones are falling in a pile and they are just not making an effective diagnosis. "Angry cloud mean 7 days big chief wenger" - Post No. 100874
Arseneknewbest 8:29am 2nd Dec 2016
Simon - Go on mate, have the pelotas next time to finish an article like this by saying why, why, why this sh*t happens every year. It's a two word answer in case you're unsure. First word begins with an "A", the next with a "W". In the words of the not-so-great Roy Walker, "Say what you see". Stop pulling your punches and put the blame where it belongs for this absurd situation which has made us the laughing stock of football. Wenger must go - it's really not that difficult to say let alone imagine. - Post No. 100875
Danish Gooner 8:36am 2nd Dec 2016
Wenger treats this competition with absurd disdain simply because he is obsessed with the League and Cl something he will never win anyway. - Post No. 100876
GS 9:06am 2nd Dec 2016
The real issue is Wenger does not treat any of the 4 comps seriously, all of them are just a means to an end. So lets not get to upset about being knocked out of EFL, as further misery awaits while the TOF is still in charge. In Wenger we Rust. - Post No. 100877
Ron 12:10pm 2nd Dec 2016
Good article Simon. 'Disdain' sums it up. The fans can change things there if they open ther eyes and find the will to do so. Stop going, stop paying! 4th each yr is the Clubs benchmark. AFC s ambition (i use the word reservedly) starts and ends there. If there is still one fan standing who can see read and hear who now cant see this as an indisputable fact then they deserve to be treated with disdain in my opinion. AFC are an also ran club by dint of their own choice and policy. Its not a surprise that the Club rarely produces and exiting young players. Where is the incentive for an up and coming young player to be there and subject his career to Wenger and AFC? If i had a talented Son, i wouldn't want him going there and it saddens me to say this. - Post No. 100879
GS 12:25pm 2nd Dec 2016
Win the League Cup, win the league title, fair enough ---- What about Win the FA Cup win the league title ?? No, its all smoke and mirrors. The Regime have no desire to win anything in particular , only to top most richest club league. CL we make up the numbers , FA Cup 2 out of 12, league Cup 0 out of 12, PL 0 out of 12. All are just a money making exercise while promising Jam tomorrow....In Wenger we Rust. - Post No. 100880
Tony Evans 12:30pm 2nd Dec 2016
Watch Wenger play a full strength team next week in the CL in a futile attempt to win the group, when he should be resting players! I wouldn't mind him throwing the LC so much if we had a genuine chance at the bigger trophies, but the cold, hard truth is we don't. - Post No. 100881
RedPig 12:46pm 2nd Dec 2016
Excellent article Simon. Probably the best one I've seen you write on here. - Post No. 100882
Robert Exley 12:59pm 2nd Dec 2016
I never used to be bothered about fielding a second XI in the League Cup. But in those days we actually had a decent second XI - Post No. 100883
Ron 13:11pm 2nd Dec 2016
Hi Robert - yes, in those days of project youth when he used to filed such teams, win and flash the leathery 'i know best' grin from wall to wall it was only when the other Clubs were fielding even weaker teams or if they didnt, the effort was minimal on their part. We all fell for it though didnt we back then. I was there at Anfield for the 6-3 for eg. I knew deep down that Liverpool had barely put in a tackle or ran themselves out but shut my eyes to that. We were fools. Its fan attitudes like mine back then that has kept Wenger in situ for so long. We swallowed his con tricks and spin, hook line and sinker. - Post No. 100884
Reality Cech 13:17pm 2nd Dec 2016
GS let me correct your stats; 3 PL Titles in 20 years, 6 FA cups in 20 years, No League Cups, No Champs League, No Uefa/Europa cups. Wenger is an imbecile. Useless, devoid of ideas and the ability to organise & motivate. He may see the League cup as a 'free' game but it wasn't free to the poor schmucks that travelled and paid to get into witness that bilge. Sack him immediately and lets move forward. - Post No. 100885
GS 13:26pm 2nd Dec 2016
Reality Cech : Feel free to correct them, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt for the first 8yrs, its only since we were sold the "pup" of the Emirates that he's been Bloody annoying. - Post No. 100886
jjetplane 13:27pm 2nd Dec 2016
And there was every Tom, Dick saying how Wengo now has the squad to really go for things and yet Simon now refers to the Arsenal back-up as Runts and Nippers. Even if the mighty Mesut were on there he would have been laughed at in the manner Theo is ever since he said defenders are scared of me now. Between the baby rocking, thumb sucking, zip and nose struggle This club is probably worse than last year. Southampton would beat Arsenal in a quarter final anytime and there is a club on a third rebuild in as many seasons which puts Wenger fully in perspective. Should have been moved on before the move to the er new Safeway (geddit!) opening for business. Wank of a club. - Post No. 100887
Peter Wain 13:47pm 2nd Dec 2016
the southampton result was hardly a surprise . We could have lost to both Swansea and middlesborough at home. It is the same old season not buying quality and having too few players. Sanchez and Ozil could both go at the end of the season because of rank poor management not only from Wenger but also from the owner to the puppets on the board. - Post No. 100888
Bonzo 14:26pm 2nd Dec 2016
Surprise of the day, I've only just discovered that David O'leary is an Arsenal ambassador. Blimey the man who ruined his legendary status by constantly slating off Arsenal and kicking off against Robert Pires. We are a forgiving bunch. I'll put my tin hat on now whilst I await some juiced up AKB freak starting a reply. - Post No. 100889
Alsace 16:20pm 2nd Dec 2016
I should never have said Tapeworm - Post No. 100891
mbg 16:21pm 2nd Dec 2016
We all know why you thought we should beat Southampton. And you mean you haven't spotted the signs yet? even after all this time ? Do you actually watch Arsenal ? A blind man would see and know (no diss to the blind community)no need to answer as again we know why. But you see we're not a big club and do neither and no only with the league cup and it's all down an arrogant old egoistic manger who only does things for himself an his ego and not the club and certainly not the fans an it's all aided and abetted by AKB's like you, a square man who thinks what he says is important, and someone who thinks he's an auditor and the rest of his luvvies. wenger out now. - Post No. 100892
mbg 16:37pm 2nd Dec 2016
Win the League Cup win the League ? a bit late with that statement, so that's the league out the window then (not that it was ever in) as usual you've told us nothing we don't already know in your long drawn out musings. wenger out. - Post No. 100893
Redshirtswhitesleeves 17:01pm 2nd Dec 2016
Bonzo- I didn't know about O'Leary being a club ambassador either, I'm absolutely amazed given his disgraceful behaviour towards us when he was Leeds manager and as you said his treatment of Robert Pires. Talk about biting the hand that used to feed you. I also remember his constant sucking up to fergie and Man ure too during that period when we were head to head with them for the title every season, always complimenting them whilst slagging us off! He can f*** right off if you ask me, I no longer recognise him as ever having played for us and I was a big fan of his as a kid. Surely there are far more deserving ex players worthy of that role, I can think of countless ones off the top of my head. This club has gone completely bonkers since leaving Highbury, this is just another example - Post No. 100894
Mad Monk 17:07pm 2nd Dec 2016
It's all a conspiracy made up by the media we haven't really got injury problems we haven't got useless player's we haven't got a clueless manager we weren't lied to about moving to a bigger brighter stadium to compete with all of Europe it's the ref's fault it's Sky Sports fault everyone who played under GG it's their fault you lot on here it's your fault it could even be Nige Farage's fault or maybe Trump but God forbid anyone dare whisper the truth and the wrath of Untold will be upon you. - Post No. 100895
Roy 17:20pm 2nd Dec 2016
Wengo is well past the peak of his capabilities that he can pay the LC lip service thinking that he can win the Title or the CL. And what's worse, it didn't take a genius to work out that there was a very high probability we would lose when the teams were announced. Saints may have made 8 changes, but unfortunately Forster, Bertrand and Van Dyck would all walk into our team. That was their insurance, and you just knew it would work. We will never progress until the Wengo era is over and whoever takes over is actually held accountable. We are now unlikely to see Santi until March who as we all know is the fulcrum of the team, and in truth we have struggled in his absence. So hold on tight for another rollercoaster to 4th place, and maybe Wengo still in charge next season. Whether that's with or without Alexis and Ozil remains to be seen. Good grief. Wenger out. - Post No. 100896
mbg 18:11pm 2nd Dec 2016
ArseneKnewBest, good post, some of these chief AKB's just still can't admit what they've been seeing for eleven years now, and more importantly can't admit the cause of it, Sad people, just wait until the next manager comes in they'll be the first to tell us, in their silly meaningless blogs, audits, and circulars, as has been said before they actually deserve wenger, unfortunately the proper fans who care and with ambition are stuck with him too. wenger out. - Post No. 100897
Bard 18:13pm 2nd Dec 2016
Simon do I detect a touch of wobbishness in your piece ? If so power to your keyboard. Two issues arise for me. The attitude on wed stunk. It doesnt matter what team Arsenal put out it is a basic that we put in a proper shift, thats what they get well paid to do. On Wed we didnt turn up not for the first time I might add. Secondly it is pure arrogance that Weng thinks its beneath us because we have our eyes on bigger fish. What bigger fish might that be. CL? No chance. The Prem? No chance. We are capable of winning the FA cup or the League cup but thats it. I notice suddenly Santi's absence is akin to Barca being without Messi, do me a favour. Onwards and downwards. - Post No. 100898
jjetplane 18:19pm 2nd Dec 2016
Must have missed something with Santi turning into one of those rock legends who rise above us through absence. Basically he had a good game against City sometime ago and it appears he never recovered from being called the best midfielder in the modern game. Since then he has to date made a few passes, flicks, smiled a lot when hitting stanchions with a Benny Hill type volley (or was it Dick Emery) and now sleeps peaceably in a space capsule orbiting the err Ramblas. Which brings me on to the man man who was bought to glue this flimsiest of projects together. Step forward the scourge of Bulgaria (you have to see that goal ....) who likes to suck his thumb when he is not sleep walking on the pitch. But the AKBs want Jack back and he can smoke and drink all he wants as long as he covers til Santi (hush ....) returns to earth ...... Good thing it's only the Hammers next who are just a little bit unpopular with Atwood and the errrr lads .... - Post No. 100899
mbg 18:44pm 2nd Dec 2016
Bonzo, Redshirts, that's what you get for saying the right things about OGL and his regime, that's what happens and how your rewarded for being a wenger luvvie, expect bouldy to step into a similar role when the time comes, maybe DOL is pushing for a shoe in for the top post, all it'll take is some more curtseying and boughing and saying the right things at the right time, like when we're embarrassed by some team coming out with, the team let their manager down today speech, that could swing it, it's certainly not going to go to anyone who has said any different or spoke their mind and told the truth - Post No. 100900
Brighton Gooner 19:02pm 2nd Dec 2016
Wouldn't it be refreshing if TOF actually fielded his strongest team in both domestic cups, with the serious intention of winning them? We all know we haven't a prayer in the CL and top 4 is the best we can expect in the Prem so why not actually try to win something we are capable of and actually give the fans a lift? Oh of course I forgot the club doesn't give a s**t about the fans. So it will be the usual groundhog day, humiliation in February in CL and the usual slump in the league. So boring! - Post No. 100901
CORNISH GOONER 19:40pm 2nd Dec 2016
Simon, hate to tell you this but the words OPTIMISTIC & REALISM don't generally go well together - certainly not in the fantastical world of Arthur Webster. But I detect a note of gentle rebuke for OGL in your article. Is this to ingratiate yourself with the majority on here who have had more than enough of the man's tenure or have you experienced a genuine moment, if belated, of conversion from the cult of Wengerism? - Post No. 100902
Bonzo 19:53pm 2nd Dec 2016
Redshirtswhitesleaves - that was the thing wasn't it a fantastic servant of the club who I also looked up to. Who then went completely toxic. I sometimes wondered whether he thought he was going to get a job in the Arsenal management structure and then got very embittered afterwards. It might explain the oddness of his behaviour. I also forgot about the Fergie love in. - Post No. 100903
Wobby Wotten 22:47pm 2nd Dec 2016
Yep. So it's agreed. Bell end Bonzo is a bell end. - Post No. 100904
Greg38 2:15am 3rd Dec 2016
Simon Rose, akb extraordinaire.. - Post No. 100905
Cyril 2:57am 3rd Dec 2016
Ron, on the 333-1 formation. The ova geezer from the dark side understands it. He plays in effect a 424 formation with a high press. Citizen Kane is like Sanchez in truth. He goes wide and then drops in for a 1- 2. Danger boy is Erikson as he nits it together. Pochettino learned from Biesla. Time to think gooners!,,, - Post No. 100906
mbg 3:37am 3rd Dec 2016
Mad Monk, great post, yes there's some who still think it's always somebody else's fault, (you couldn't make it up)from the tea lady, to hillwood, rob the chef, the ref, ball boys, etc, etc, but never wenger the waste of space, thank fook a lot of fans are prepared to tell it as it is, the truth, and tell it often, and not afraid to, and will keep telling it until this old fraud is gone, you can only hood wink so many into believing, and thankfully their regressing in numbers as every day goes by. wenger out. - Post No. 100907
Nick 11:02am 3rd Dec 2016
As I expected we were dumped out of the ELC unceremoniously by Southampton! After all if we had we won this tie we were still a two leg match away from a Wembley trip and a possible trophy obviously nowhere near close enough for Wenger to get excited about the prospect of winning the one domestic trophy which is absent from his cv ! He as expected picked a totally miss matched team leaving out all our heavy hitters and those on display performed poorly ! Ah well Wenger obviously cares not a whit for this competion asked if he regretted the changes made he said no his only regret was the result, now this type of defeat has happened with clock like regularity in the league cup and every time bar one for the same reason TEAM SELECTION or in other words due to the manager ! I believe that winning this cup could be and has been to others a filip and a confidence booster which can lead to bigger and better things ! Still as ever this seasons trends are following those of ALL that have preceded it since 2004 ! So I do not expect it's final outcome to be any different to seasons gone by either ! Wenger is paid a fortune to see such trends and do his best to alter them to ensure a different and better outcome but every season pans out exactly the same with a monotomous langour with only ONE reason for its doing so the man who has orchestrated said litany of disappointment since the heady days of the invincible side WENGER !! It's a sad truth which applies to us all that age diminishes our powers we still think we can do all that we used to in our youth but our bodies tell us otherwise our minds to tend to become set in our thought patterns and CHANGE becomes abhorrent to us which could explain why our mangers refuse to contemplate doing things any differently, I believe we must all except that change is inevitable and a change of our helmsman is long overdue! ! - Post No. 100908
Seven Kings Gooner 12:00pm 3rd Dec 2016
Quite simply, a two legged semi final would get in the way of points in our quest to finish fourth. A far cry from that pulsating semi in 1987 which set George Graham's young team on it's way to becoming champions. As many have said for years now, if you can't see what is in front of you then AFC deserve every penny they can filtch from you in whatever way possible. I actually think the club have broken footballing rules by deliberately throwing a cup tie - if not a rule, most certainly the spirit of the game has been debased. - Post No. 100909
jjetplane 13:33pm 3rd Dec 2016
Quite clinically Wenger has a default compromise that he knows his team cannot win this cup or indeed trophies per se and that the business model of being in touch with the market leaders is the most successful way for the club. Wenger does not do football but does do economics and that is all this club sadly is. Other market leaders are not so limited but have football people in place to ensure they are competing. Wenger is post competition and this has been the downgrade for a dozen years. Like any careerist he has crowned it all a success and the media have helped him by being a soft touch to a horribly soft club. I say to people now I was an Arsenal supporter and saw a lot od them from the 60s to the 2000s but I say with Wenger there i treat the club like any other PL brand. Yes - i laugh when Arseal lose now because i would rather see this accountant humilated and never to be near Arsenal again. It really is a tragedy- This ****wit has killed our club! Anyway - Citeh are one up lol! - Post No. 100910
Exiled gooner in Portugal 13:43pm 3rd Dec 2016
Let's be honest progressing in the league cup would not propel this team on to greatness. We have won two f.a cups in recent years and cannot say we have seen any noticeable change in desire, still the same bunch of overpaid prancing team of bottlers when the going gets tough, then when fourth place is secured and no possibility of winning the league they start to play again!! Until changes happen in the boardroom and the zip fiddler goes we will continue to be nothing but the laughing stock of football. Making money for the syrup wearing yank and his yes men. The great Herbert Chapman must be rolling in his grave. All of them out and give us our Arsenal back... - Post No. 100911
jjetplane 14:26pm 3rd Dec 2016
Talk about Arsenal catching Chelsea on a bad day .... Chelski looking the best bet now at this early stage and with my indifference to Brand Asano I am really enjoying Costa and laugh about the way spineless little AKBs rabbit on about such players. The bloke is the real deal and a delight to watch. Wonder how Asano will do at Citeh? Wow! 10 men Citeh ... Football is elsewhere while Asano keep the business model ticking over Zzzzzzzzzzz ..... - Post No. 100912
Paul Ward 16:04pm 3rd Dec 2016
Need to pull our finger out today, do not want to be six behind Chelsea, even at this early stage. Not sure why Wenger has thrown poor Carl Jenkinson under a bus so publicly, find it hard to believe Gabriel will do a amuch better job myself, don't get that one at all. Still, slaughtering your own players in the media along with mismanaging players injuries is a well known recipe for success, as Arsene has proved these past 10 years. - Post No. 100915
mbg 17:53pm 3rd Dec 2016
An early Xmas present tonight please, wengers Resignation. - Post No. 100916
mbg 18:19pm 3rd Dec 2016
jj, your spot on there, I think TOF would hate to win it, it would really piss him off, if we were winning or hanging on to a lead in the quarters or semi final he'd be s******g himself and it wouldn't be in case the opposition scored. wenger out tonight. - Post No. 100917
Smithy 19:29pm 3rd Dec 2016
Good result - didn't really expect that! - Post No. 100918
GS 19:48pm 3rd Dec 2016
Top performance , 5-1 could have been 10-1 - more please - learn from it Wenger . Only 1 player under performed but who cares . 5 goals -3pts - happy days. - Post No. 100919
Leek fc 19:58pm 3rd Dec 2016
Mr W has been here 20 years. He won't be holding his breath upon your comments GS. "Learn from it" ?????? Mr Wenger doesn't need to be told from fools like you. WENGER MUST STAY - Post No. 100921
Bonzo 19:59pm 3rd Dec 2016
Leekey - we know Jamee is obsessed about testicle size, as you have had his gonads stuffed in your face are they any bigger than normal? My betting is they are shrivelled. Leekey ! Are you there Leekey? Tap if you are trapped we can't hear you! - Post No. 100922
mbg 20:04pm 3rd Dec 2016
Don't be fooled TOF just loves this competition (league cup) it's another way for him to put two fingers up at fans who try and influence him, those who want him to try and win it, and who urge him to pick a decent team, the same as signings when the windows open with who and what they'd like and want, and who they'd like and are vocal about, TOF listens to nobody, is influenced by nobody, takes advice from nobody and just loves doing the opposite with a smirk on his face which says up yours. wenger out. - Post No. 100923
GS 20:05pm 3rd Dec 2016
Happy days leeky is back allo, leeky is back . No negatives leeky , good win 3pts end of . Now jog on and finish the washing up . Don't forget the bins on Tuesday . - Post No. 100924
Paul Ward 20:21pm 3rd Dec 2016
Thank heavens for that, and thank heavens for Alexis Sanchez, another superb display friom our best player. Hope the manager accepts 2nd spot in CL group and leaves all the big guns in London this week, need to buitd on this result and performance next Saturday, - Post No. 100925
I love my life 21:49pm 3rd Dec 2016
Gonna be funny in May when you lot have to look at your balls the size of peanuts. Ooooooooo tooooooo beeeeee aaaaaaaaaaa gooooooonaaaaaaaaaa. - Post No. 100926
mbg 22:49pm 3rd Dec 2016
GS, learn from it ? don't be silly mate, that question has been asked for fourteen years now (and indeed we've even been told from TOF and his players that we will and have such is their lies and spin) they never do, he never will, west ham rolled over tonight and TOF will think there's nothing to learn and just keep doing the same until a decent team comes along who knows how to play us and wont/doesn't roll over. wenger out - Post No. 100927
Bonzo 23:07pm 3rd Dec 2016
Carry On Wengo :- A delightful slapstick comedy starring our favourite AKB's how many years can he go on! Wilfred Bramble - plays old man Colesey Christopher Biggins - plays Jamee "the man with the caravan" Derek Nimmo - plays the Reverend Brian Badarse Charles Hawtrey - plays Leekey Hattie Jacques - plays Jamee's long suffering wife - Post No. 100928
GS 23:41pm 3rd Dec 2016
mbg: wishful thinking I know, but Wenger not learnt much in last 12 yrs and I'm hoping the penny has dropped, that you look at winning performances and try to replicate them . We live in hope , that said, a great performance tonight from the team & Alexis unplayable , world class . COYG - Post No. 100929
mbg 2:02am 4th Dec 2016
GS, yes mate great performance tonight from the players and well done especially Sanchez what would we do without him, in a class of his own tonight indeed (so one wonders what he's doing here)it's funny how we always seem to say that about just one of our players who always gets wenger out of the dung, (what would he do without them) and no doubt he'll end up going/doing what the others have done (for a profit of course) as for TOF learning, when he doesn't learn from an embarrassment what chance of this, this will just tell him and his little technicians there's nothing to learn, and they'll go out again like strutting peacocks and of course the inevitable will happen. You can bet Bilic and his players will learn from it and Bilic will make sure they do unlike the old fraud we have. - Post No. 100930
19th March 2017
Online Ed: Wenger’s team crash and burn at West Brom