The Idiots

By Markymark

Is the dismissal of Kane Hopps and Arsenal Fan TV by some in the mass media a sign of desperation?

BBC Radio 5, Sunday 12th February, 09:55am. Oliver Holt repeats that the Arsenal fan who held up the Wenger out banner is an idiot. Note that this so called idiot also supports a club whose Fan TV channel is an "embarrassment".

Why has someone who has years of experience in journalism condescendingly dismissed an alternative opinion? Where is the curiosity to ask why this supporter believes this? Why indeed do a group of pundits and journalists feel they have a right to attack a supporter who held aloft a reasonably polite and not particularly provocative A4 piece of paper? Why the continual attacks on the fan channel?

My childhood memory reflects back to a time when an idiot fan was someone involved in smashing up a Service Station on the M6. Not a young guy with an opinion. Our definition of idiot appears to have narrowed and become far less tolerant.

When one looks at journalists who are perceived to be aggressive and provocative such as Simon Heffer and Katie Hopkins, (although I typically disagree with their opinion) I am struck by the weight of the argument they give. They attempt to construct an argument whether one accepts it or not. Compare in contrast Gary Neville, John Cross and now Oliver Holt who can only fall back on "be careful what you wish for", who accord Wenger a form of legendary status somehow gained through length of service. The actual basis of this legend disappears slowly into history.

Looking at the aggressive dismissals is something else at play? Is the cold wind of society change so evident in 2016 / 2017 somehow spread an under current of fear within the established order, do they feel under threat?

Futurologists suggest that amongst the jobs considered to be most at risk of disappearing, Journalists are high on the list. A view is we are all increasingly becoming journalists now with our social media usage and our bypassing of established channels. The 1980's modelled TV media network SKY, who still have to rent line cables from BT, spend huge marketing sums, but are under increasing pressure from BT Sport, Freeview, Netflix, Amazon, Apple, even the legally grey Kodi Box. The market is loaded with threat, can SKY continue their pre-eminence? A fan who holds up a placard can muster huge publicity across multi-media for a cost of a ticket, SKY are increasing unwieldy.

Then we have John Cross the voice of the working man’s paper, if of course you go back to 1975. Compare to Arsenal Fan TV, supposedly creating 12 million hits a month. The Mirror, Express and others must despair at this erosion of power. Who talks to the fans? John Cross, Oliver Holt, or is it Claude, Ty and the other voices?

I can't help thinking that the petulant dismissal of public opinion is more based on their own fear of loss of status and power and far less about any real positive argument for Wenger staying.

13th February 2017 10:36:49


Comments and Reaction

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Yes its Ron  10:41am 13th Feb 2017

Ollie Holt is always very sanctimonious. Loves to be a moralist type voice amongst the hacks and in his own mind, stands above resorting to damaging destructive comment. The mans intelligent but hes a bore. He seems to think fans are idiots, well, so do the Clubs who they support so Holt's not alone there. - Post No. 103903

jeff wright  11:02am 13th Feb 2017

Wenger has become part of the establishment for want of a better word in England.Like Eamonn Holmes on TV who is rather boring and drab and that's just when he is reading the news. Katy Price is another who gets cut plenty of slack by the media with constant'shock' revelations ,I was raped by a famous celeb at 18. I was molested in a park by a tramp when I was seven,what next... Wenger unlike say Mourinho is for some reason seen as being a safe option and all of these football pundits and writers depend on football staying popular so anyone trying to derail the gravy train that they are riding on is sure to get short shift from the Cross and Neville gang . This is because they see them as being a threat to themselves as they are not advocating that Wengo should call it a day. You couldn't make it up. - Post No. 103904

GSPM  11:10am 13th Feb 2017

MarkyMark : Good topical post. The Journo's/Pundits are now feeling threaten from Fan Power. Station like Arsenalfantv are the future, real fans talking about the game they have just been too, not drab Journo's/Pundits who have an agenda. I would much rather listen to a Fan who has travelled 5hrs to Sunderland away anytime, than listen to a pampered pundit sitting in a comfy studio talking nonsense. The Revolution is coming ...... - Post No. 103905

The Man From UNCLE  11:25am 13th Feb 2017

The only idiot is Oliver Holt. He of the high whiny voice and holier than thou countenance that is so typical of the 21st century hack. Just like BBC and Sky who somewhere along the line have stopped reporting the news and now think they can make it instead. - Post No. 103906

John F  11:27am 13th Feb 2017

Good post Mark it could be as you say that main stream media feel threatened but I tend to think Cross and Neville each have their own agenda.John Cross after writing his book on Wenger has probably gained a more intimate relationship with Arsenal which he might lose if Wenger went.Gary Neville as someone else suggested has probably got a lot of hostility bubbling under the surface after his pain in Spain.Keown today at least did not answer the question when the sneering radio five interviewer asked do you think Arsenal supporters are spoilt.He did say that Arsenal lacked a winning mentality and a physical presence (Van Persie said this to RF when he joined Utd)but then claimed Wenger should get another year and ended with a be careful what you wish for type statement.It is if Wenger is somehow detached from the problems he highlighted.As Ron said pundits clubs and players probably do not have any respect for fans and feel they can be easily manipulated. - Post No. 103907

Yes its Ron  11:47am 13th Feb 2017

Hi John - I dont think there's a Club who've invested more time and energy into fan manipulation this last 10 years. AFC are experts at it. Many are beguiled by it, though many actively choose to be as they are delicate when the reality of what AFC have become is revealed to them. Thats not to criticise them. A fans love for his/her Club usually started in a different age and to let the irrationality go that following a Club involves is very difficult. I found it hard to give AFC up some years back and instead to stare in the face what they've become. I still miss it (very occasionally), but the more i see of AFC the less i like the Club. The same applies to football generally though for me. I can take it or leave it. All it takes now for me to remind me that i was right to end it, is an away day match. I go occasionally yet i can truly say that i cant recall the last really good AFC game i saw. - Post No. 103908

bradyorbergkamp  12:13pm 13th Feb 2017

So how then Mr Holt is making a peaceful point the sign of an idiot and an embarrassment.please enlighten a simpleton like me on how to make a point.please show me a 5000 word article on why they are idiots and embarrassing.Mr Holt please show us /tell us why we should not question the situ that has gone on from when the major debt has been repaid and we are a buying club again? Surely it is someone's job to hold the board to account,say jurnos and fans? - Post No. 103909

Bard  12:13pm 13th Feb 2017

Marymark, good post mate raises some interesting questions about reporting and reporters. You are right their remit is diminishing by the day. Mostly its all just hot air. John Cross is just rent a gob for anything Arsenal. He must have terrible splinters from all that sitting on a fence stuff he comes out with. No one of them has the balls to call Wenger out . Holts article is total rubbish but a god send to those on Untold. - Post No. 103910

RobG  12:22pm 13th Feb 2017

Good post 👏👍 - Post No. 103911

Yes its Ron  12:24pm 13th Feb 2017

Bard - is Cross worse than Keown? I think not. What an irritating man he is. Never saw him as much of a player really but as a pundit hes nauseating. Hes one of many who seem to revel in their own self made image as the 'voices of calm reason'. I dont think half of them truly believe what they say to be honest. Theyre in the business of projecting an image and a 'view' but really theyre feathering whats left of their own nest. - Post No. 103912

Redshirtwhitesleeves  12:40pm 13th Feb 2017

Mark you have raised an interesting topic. My view is the mainstream journalists, despite supposedly maintaining neutrality, have a very biased agenda and in any case are becoming less and less influential in this age where anyone and everyone can post an opinion. The written and tv media in general have an awful bias towards man ure and Liverpool and to a lesser extent the spuds. Holt comes across as a bit of a righteous preacher to me and John cross is so far up Wengers back side nothing he says is worth paying any attention to. The fan with the banner had every right to demonstrate and the likes of Neville etc branding him an idiot is irrelevant. People like Neville and holt don't follow Arsenal like a fan does and are not in tune with the feelings and frustrations of a fan base that are feeling completely alienated and pushed aside by the club they love. There are some excellent journalists writing for the nationals like Henry winter and Patrick Barclay but they are few and far between in my opinion. It's sites like this where you will find proper informed opinion from those in the know and those with views worth listening to - Post No. 103913

GSPM  12:49pm 13th Feb 2017

Some good points well made. Gary Neville with ArsenalFanTv is being filmed now and should be out soon...The future of Fan Tv is on its way... - Post No. 103914

jjetplane  12:54pm 13th Feb 2017

As Marshall McCluhan coined 'the medium is the message' and once you are over that it is all really take or leave. I like 5 live as audio wallpaper and the phone ins are the best when fans get wound up or have a laugh. Arsenal are unique in that as JW puts it so well, they are the benchmark for corporate sport in this country and spineless liggers like Keown (an extra in the Adams fold) Cross and the rest dread more than even Wenger the thought that he would be gone and the next manager hopefully closing shop on fawning nice guys who are there for the money and not the football. Wenger dreads nothing and probably has some weird ****ing clause that states he has a job for life and he may well continue for another decade squeezing what is lefy of the fading identity of AFC. The badge sums them all up. Faceless ****s. But if you really want odious ****wits spoiling your coffee break, take a look at Untold who really are the far right suprematist faction of le Prof's half and half army. Roll on Wednesday - may even catch that on the radio ... - Post No. 103915

Cyril  13:31pm 13th Feb 2017

Neville doesn't understand that much of the angst is about the amount of money we spend going to see them. As an analogy, it's like been sent a brochure on expensive watches like omega, patek, IWC, Rolex etc and then being invited at cost to an open day to purchase a piece; shelling out thousands and ending up with a sekonda!! They all rub it in and believe me it hurts!!! - Post No. 103916

Moscowgooner  13:33pm 13th Feb 2017

Who really gives a toss what these characters say or think anyway? They donīt support the club, they donīt pay to watch games - on the contrary they are paid to watch! Their only qualification for commenting is the fact that they played the sport: do we require political journalists to be former politicians or former actors to review drama? Generally the level of football punditry has declined as players have taken over and sports journalists have been pushed out - see Gary Lineker as a prime example. The only people really with a right to comment on Wengerīs future are Arsenal fans - and more especially Arsenal fans who actually pay to attend games home and away. - Post No. 103917

Yes its Ron  13:38pm 13th Feb 2017

MoscowG - Well said that man! - Post No. 103918

Robert Exley  13:44pm 13th Feb 2017

I was enjoying this article until you claimed that Katie Hopkins attempts to construct an argument. I've seen apes in cages at London Zoo throwing their excrement around in a cage construct a more reasoned argument than that failed game show contestant with a chip on her shoulder. As for AFTV, original idea though it is I don't think they add much of worth to the Wenger In/out argument. Ty and Claude just seem to go at it like the Jeremy Kyle Show rather than give any reasoned argument. As for Holt and Neville, both are avid Reds and Wenger seems to have turned into the kind of Arsenal manager that turns up and meekly surrenders three points. When a Chelsea fan sings 'Arsene Wenger - we want you to stay' it's sarcastic. When a United fan sings it, it's disingenuous. As for Holt's journalistic qualities - 1) He's the son of Emily Bishop from Coronation Street, 2) He gave a none too critical appraisal of Murdoch (his boss at the time) taking over the club he supports. Two things that hold you in good stead for a 'meeja' career no doubt. - Post No. 103919

mbg  13:48pm 13th Feb 2017

Excellent Article Markymark the only idiot/idiots here are Holt and his llk and all the other wengerite luvvies, (as well of course all the other run of the mill JCL terrace ones)they can see clearly, and indeed know full well as we all do TOF's time is up, it's time for change, it's time to for him to go, all they can see their own cosy way of life and routine, relationships, pressers, meetings, interviews, freebies, etc, etc, within the Emirates coming to an end with a shake up and don't like it one bit, they're just like the rest s*****g themselves over change, yes this old tired, be careful what you wish for, (yawn) mantra always wheeled out, just like holt and the rest, pathetic. We want wenger out, we want wenger out. - Post No. 103920

Yes its Ron  14:01pm 13th Feb 2017

Hi Robert - in fairness Holt supports Stockport ( Well, he would wdt he, theyre so good for his humility status!). He loves to speak of 'my Club' on the Sunday Supplement prog. - Post No. 103921

mbg  14:06pm 13th Feb 2017

And well done the fan with the banner, he has already came out and defended him self from TOF's luvvies (even though he didn't have to and there was certainly no need to) making himself known unlike others who don't have the balls, the only criticism I have is, it was way way to small. wenger out now. - Post No. 103923

NickT  14:09pm 13th Feb 2017

This article hits the nail on the head. The internet, and social media in particular, is slowly but surely destroying main stream media and BBC, SKY, CNN etc know it. Their 'news' is, and probably always has been, far from independent and an increasing number of people are now choosing alternative online platforms, exposing the lies and getting the bigger picture. - Post No. 103924

Herd  15:40pm 13th Feb 2017

Spot on,Social Media and things like Arsenal TV threaten the very existence these cosseted talking heads and their cushy lifestyles ! - Post No. 103925

The Man From UNCLE  16:09pm 13th Feb 2017

Nick T quite right. You only have to go online to certain sites to see how politically biased the MSM is. For example BBC and that commie rag The Guardian are practically joined at the hip. Even the once venerated When Saturday Comes has for a long time been akin to listening to a polite conversation in a Starbucks. In football as in real life, the people are fighting back. - Post No. 103926

Arseneknewbest  17:51pm 13th Feb 2017

Good piece Marky my man. This is symptomatic of a wider societal malaise. Lineker's current issues with the fascist daily mail are another good example. Organisations no longer pretend to be good: they try instead to suppress free thought and control the means by which dissenting ideas are spread. Oliver Holt, Henry Winter, the lazy twatz at the Guardian - they're all part of the problem and a million miles away from offering any solutions. They get paid by tax evading press barons to print anodyne stuff that doesn't rock the boat and keeps feeding scudamore's awful PL spin machine. The TV companies are just as bad. If any of these so called journos wrote something even remotely controversial they'd no longer get access. The gooner who spoke speak out deserves a huge amount of credit for his bravery - I hope that being branded an idiot by a lightweight appeaser like Holt only makes him more determined to keep challenging to a-holes who are wrecking our club. If you're reading this mate, good on you. - Post No. 103927

mbg  18:11pm 13th Feb 2017

Heard the latest from the chief bullshyter ? My experience helps me to anticipate the problems we will face when things don't work for us, Jesus H, (has TOF ever anticipated anything in his fooking life ?) you don't know whether to laugh or cry, you couldn't make it up, what an old fraud. wenger out now. - Post No. 103928

jjetplane  18:42pm 13th Feb 2017

Sanchez was hand ball, Gibbs was a red and the best team lost. Next .... Fun on here when posters display their politics. Let's you know who is wandering around in the woods wearing a bed sheet. Or maybe just a flat cap and hunting jacket in some **** pub. - Post No. 103929

mbg  18:55pm 13th Feb 2017

And I see OGL has found another excuse something/someone to blame for his failings now, the metropolitan police, complaining of the Sirens on their cars keeping him awake in his/the teams hotel as they rushed to an emergency or what ever, Aw dear disturbing poor diddum's sleep, that just won't do, whatever difference it makes is anyones guess, him and his wengerites will stoop to any length. You couldn't make it up. wenger out. - Post No. 103930

Paulward  19:03pm 13th Feb 2017

Does anybody watch Sunday Supplement these days? Load of middle classers that should be covering rugby and cricket if you ask me. They seem to quite like Wenger, but then they would because he is good to them and is a bit more interesting than the average manager, though that isn't too difficult. As for on the pitch thought we were decent first half and bloody awful after the interval on Saturday, not sure who I'd play in midfield on Wednesday either. Can't trust Xhaka not to get sent off, whilst the Ox would still be a gamble in his new role, would start Coq and El Neny I think and play Chamberlain on the right instead of Theo, whilst Iwobi should be dropped for the more disciplined Welbeck. Hoping for the best but fearing a hammering to be honest. - Post No. 103931

CORNISH GOONER  19:24pm 13th Feb 2017

The Meeja, Arsenal Corporation et al now inhabit a totally different world from the rest of us. "History is bunk" (Henry Ford?) as "facts" are so yesterday & "alternative facts" are all the rage now. It used to be called "spin" but things have moved on somewhat. It is to Monsieur Clouseau's credit that he could be said to have invented Alternative Facts. And hasn't he come out with some crackers today? It's the way he tells 'em! The only trouble is that Alternative Facts have a limited lifespan & true history eventually takes over. So the chances of an Arsene Legacy diminish for every year he clings on to his supreme power. Whereas Herbert Chapman built not one but two Football Clubs - a proper legacy. - Post No. 103933

Kvltman  19:44pm 13th Feb 2017

A good read and lots of truth in it. I think Arsenal fans can relate to the relative phenomena of ArsenalFanTv as whether it was intentional or not has turned into a weekly debate about the manager IN/OUT which is the biggest topic regarding the club right now (an unhealthy state of affairs in itself) and it offers a lot more passion and emotion than what most professional journalists offer up ie the dreaded "be careful what you wish for" or worse, detailed criticism of the manager but stopping short of calling for his head. I think this kind of fan involvement in mass media will increase but also think there will always be a demand from the general public for opinions of famous and respected ex-pros. I think it is people like Ollie 'the man bun' Holt and John Cross who are most at risk. Let's face it how much more about football do these guys really know than you or I? When it boils down to it probably not too much and their tired and dull rhetoric grates which is probably why they write the cutting stuff they do fishing for reactions. As has been said already, all about the agenda. - Post No. 103934

donaldo71  20:04pm 13th Feb 2017

After every catastrophic defeat the television and radio stations roll out the Wenger apologists Keown and Parlour and the head of Arsenal PR John Cross to defend Wenger.Keown actually said Wenger has earned the right to decide when he wants to go.What??How any sports editor worth their salt would let Cross to daily write pro Wenger articles beggars belief.The media's job is to question Wenger not kiss his arse.Forget Holt and Neville its the ex Arsenal players and Cross who are the Enemy Within - Post No. 103935

BigDaveTheGooner  20:27pm 13th Feb 2017

I don't remember Neville being that concerned when he and his brother amongst others were kicking lumps out of the Arsenal players to end the invincibles 49 match unbeaten run and the diving cheating Rooney conning the ref for a penalty!!!! - Post No. 103936

OneBardGooner  21:15pm 13th Feb 2017

Holt is a low life CUN.T who makes a living by saying inflamatory things...and how John Cwoss can type with wenger's cock in his mouth is probably just one of the reasons he writes such Shyte. Neville is a prize turd who's opinion matters not a jot. Well done to Wayne Hopps for holding up the banner - I bet he got dogs abouse from all the AKB Sheeple wankerrs....Just because they live in La La Wengy World (ie: The Past) makes them think they are better fans or have some kind of god given right to prevent others from voicing and demonstrating their opinions. ****OFF Wenger you Fraudulent, Arrogant, Despotic, Money Grabbing Whore. Aaaaah! Tha's Better. :o) - Post No. 103937

Cyril  21:17pm 13th Feb 2017

The footy media cartel have us by the Jacobs. How it can be span that we have always competed regularly as we are in the top four is laughable. Another analogy, Arsenal are like the the racer who is always on the main peleton off the pace who finish as also Rans behind the outstanding ' king of the mountains. The odd occasions they come close is when the winner is so far ahead he is cycling no hands to the line for 200 hundred yards and then we come flying out of the peleton around the bend when it is all over and finish 5 seconds behind. The boy with the banner has a right to protest and I back him to the hilt. - Post No. 103939

Rocky RIP  21:50pm 13th Feb 2017

Holt recently said that Wenger is Arsenal's greatest ever manager and he built the club. Has he not heard of Herbert Chapman? As for AFTV.... not for me Clive. Great concept in theory and obviously it works big time, but Robbie aside, the regulars are attention seeking plums to a man. And that's putting it mildly. Embarrassing 'voices of Arsenal'. As if! - Post No. 103940

NickT  22:10pm 13th Feb 2017

DT, Troopz, Claude & Robbie in the SKY MNF studio!! Absolutely amazed SKY have gone aanywhere near it....WOW! - Post No. 103941

mbg  22:14pm 13th Feb 2017

PaulWard, funnily enough I used to, but not any more haven't for about a year or more now, got fed up with the whole lot of them giving vinegar face an easy ride in between talking crap, and trying to get the better of each other, and not giving one answer on a question before changing and moving straight into another completely different rant on another irrelevant one/subject, pure gobbledegook, there's one who was never done doing that, in between sniffing, you could never shut him up and he never said anything meaningful,(his names not worth trying to remember) i'm sure he's still there as a guest more often that not, how he got a job as a journo and how he's understood i'll never know, or maybe that's all the qualification anyone needs. wenger out and his journo bathroom attendants with him. - Post No. 103942

Robert Exley  22:28pm 13th Feb 2017

Yes It's Ron - I'm pretty sure I've got somewhere an article from 1998 with the Murdoch attempted take over of Man Utd. and him writing the article from the perspective of a Man Utd fan and journalist on the Times. Maybe he's got 'dual citizenship' so to speak - Post No. 103943

UTU The Arsenal FC  23:24pm 13th Feb 2017

Arsenal Fan TV and other Fan sites have given a platform for the expression of honest views expressed on by geniune football fans which are authenic. Main stream media has lost its influence as most use Social Media as their source for information/news and the instant ability to voice and challenge opinions. Daily newpaper sales are falling year on year, I like many others no longer watch news programs as you can see the bias in reporting. Look at the recent politcal changes with the election of a reailty TV star as US President and Brexit. Football Fans now have the ability to create, design and decide on the agenda of disscussion regarding their individual clubs and wider issues of being a football fans. Suits in studios are the sames a suits in politics, they live in their own bubble and are no longer relevant. - Post No. 103944

John F  23:27pm 13th Feb 2017

Rob and Ron you could be both right as a lot of people up here support their local club and a bigger team.A lot of Hull/Man utd,Liverpool fans around. - Post No. 103945

Bard  7:20am 14th Feb 2017

Ron; yes mate Keown is useless, just carving out a niche as a gob****. Personally I dont bother much with the media. I watch nearly all matches with the sound off and if I go to the Em I dont have to because there is little noise anyway. - Post No. 103946

MAF  8:05am 14th Feb 2017

13 games to go but 5 of those matches against 'top' Teams where Arsenal reseve the right to bottle it. lets be generous and give them 8 Points from these 5 matches. lets thehn give them 17 Points from the Balance 8 matches to total 25 Points. Magic number 75 Points which usually wins Arsenal the coveted 4th place trophy. is that going to be enough this time around....? - Post No. 103947

mbg  8:16am 14th Feb 2017

Kvltman, it sure has, and that must piss wenger and the club off enormously, long may it last. wenger out. - Post No. 103948

jeff wright  9:20am 14th Feb 2017

It's amazing how the American Realty TV star ( how is he getting on with his travel ban) and Brexit somehow keep constantly being linked on here with the biased views of the media football writers and TV pundits! If the media is diminishing in its influence though on people then surely Trump and Brexit would have failed to win as both appeared to have everything going against them with neither favourites to win. Personally I think that it was the way in which the campaigns were conducted by the crime family ( according to a former head of the FBI) Clintons and the Remains in the UK that led to them losing rather than anything to do with the media . Most newspaper readers tend to agree with views that match their own and buy the newspapers that air them. How many people are actually swayed to change their views by newspapers is a matter for conjecture. Of course the media like to claim that they are ,but then again they would do , wouldn't they >? I'm not convinced though that the football related media here in the UK and the TV pundits are losing as much influence as is claimed I don't see any great public backlash against Gary Nevs Idiot comments.The AFC fan base is obviously split but there is no sympathy from anyone else that I can see with other supporters pleased to see the Odd Fella remain with us .Some of the media hacks and TV pundits obviously concur with this so it is not in reality a hard line to sell to the non-Arsenal readers and viewers .In the final countdown only massive protests from AFC supporters stands any chance of getting shut of Wengo and if he wins his infamous 4th place trophy, he still looks a million light years away from finishing second for 20 years, then even that may not be enough. - Post No. 103952

mbg  9:43am 14th Feb 2017

I met Keown coming out of the media entrance about four seasons ago, it was over two hours after the game ended and the streets were more or less deserted, obviously his meeja duties done, I had met him before but thought i'd get him to sign the programme again for the young lad, he was talking to someone on the phone, I knew I had a pen but couldn't find it, he says hurry up I haven't got all night, still talking to who was ever on the phone he says no I've some irish man wanting an autograph and he can't find his f*****g pen, after finding it he scribbled something down, it could have been anything, it didn't look like his name to me anyway, he just walked off without a word still babbling down the phone, I remember thinking you ignorant c**t, but let it go and didn't hold it against him at the time on account of the horse face incident. - Post No. 103956

The Man From UNCLE  10:51am 14th Feb 2017

Jeff Wright; interesting posting. What's happening at AFC right now is similar to the happenings in the bigger picture of life. Bear in mind that the meeeeedja-politicos-public servants-oligarchy ("there are 10,000 people in the world, and they all know each other") live in a bubble of their own making. Hence their horror when Brexit / Trump happened. How many Guardian journos have worked for the BBC and vice versa. It's a cosy little club the likes of you and me will never be allowed to join - unless someone strikes it rich. Football wise, the likes of Cross, Keown, Darren Lewis, Talksport etc etc are on a nice cushy number and aren't going to rock the boat. But then along came the internet. - Post No. 103959

Yes its Ron  10:55am 14th Feb 2017

Yes MGB, not surprised to read that about Keown. Hes yr typical Oxford, quasi middle class, fake snob type who some how ended up in football. Its his myth that gets to me. Loves to pump oxygen into the myth that he was as fundamental as Adams, Bould Dixon and Co to the team. He never was, never would have been and thinks we have no memory, like a good many of these c--tish players who sit there pontificating and sucking Wengers ba--s. They make him out as hard too. I ll always recall Stuart Pearce having him after Keown had nibbled at Pearce. Im sure i cd see sh--e running down Keowns shorts. He lives the spin now though that the TV has stoked up for him. They love him because hes eloquent, irrespective of the fact that he just tows their boring line talking crap. You can kid a few people Keown, but dont think all of us dont recall you or recognise what you are and what youre up to. - Post No. 103960

jeff wright  13:21pm 14th Feb 2017

The Man From UNCLE,it's a fact that many people ,especially those who work for the BBC, do not see themselves as being biased but accuse others of being so. The oaf Bercow ,Sally can't wait she knows it's too late so she waved him goodbye, makes allegations against Trump that may be true or not but he was elected with a ban Muslim's travelling to the good ol U.S of A in his manifesto so had no choice but to try and honor that pledge even though he must have known that it could not be legally enforced . Bercow refused to allow Trump to address the commons but he was happy enough to allow the President of the Chinese Peoples Republic, a tyrant who rounds up his political opponents and has them shot, to do so. You couldnt make it up. - Post No. 103963

markymark  13:28pm 14th Feb 2017

I suppose I'm joining the Keown bashing and this really is tittle tattle but the company I work for had links to Premier players. Some of the PR ladies were talking and surprisingly to me Peter Schmeichel apparently was a lovely guy, nothing could be too much trouble. Keown was not liked at all. Sounds like he spread his niceness as per MBG comments. - Post No. 103964

The Man From UNCLE  13:41pm 14th Feb 2017

Bercow comes from round our neck of the woods. He always fancied himself as a bit of a player. Expect to see him on Strictly once he's been kicked out of parliament. Had he been a footballer he'd have felt right at home at Arsenal. - Post No. 103965

Arseneknewbest  8:31am 15th Feb 2017

mfu/jeff extreme right - Calm down dears. I know little about tories but stood next to the likes of Boris, Liam Fox and Gove, I'd say Bercow had ten times the personal integrity of those three tossers. All he did was to say that he didn't favour having a facist, misogynistic orange-faced traitor with miniscule lady hands in the HoP. What's wrong with that? Jeff - as usual on things not to do with Arsenal you're well wide of the mark. Put that daily mail down and open your mind a little. By the way, I see your mate Nuttall has been found out in the worst possible way. - Post No. 103977

jeff wright  9:36am 15th Feb 2017

Now now AKB ,trying reading my comments properly before you self righteously leap in flailing around like a malfunctioning wind turbine .I have no problem with Bercow not wanting Trump to address the house,albeit he is supposed to be neutral and acted instead like a dictator ,it's his approach to murderous tryrants such as the communist Chinese President who he does smile and shake hands with and alloww to address the commons that I find nauseating. The fact that you admire someone like been caught with his hand in the till Bercow who can't differentiate between religious intolerance and racism though is rather worrying. Stick to reading the Guardianista AKB you will feel much better doing that .I'll wager they also love the silly little moo Bercow. - Post No. 103980

SPARKSY  10:02am 15th Feb 2017

Good points, you may well be right. These journos bore me most of the time. They have their own agenda and always stick to the middle line so as not to upset any of the clubs who feed them. I'd much rather listen to other like minded supporters who have travelled to watch their team and tell it how it is. - Post No. 103981

Exeter Gunner  10:20am 15th Feb 2017

A couple of extreme right-wingers using OG as a platform for their views again. We don't want this turned into an outpost of Brietbart News, do we? As usual with the right, deflecting away from where the real issues are. Bercow shook hands with the 'commie' Chinese leader, but Trump's expressed admiration for the 'commie' Putin and his team's increasingly apparent links with Russian intelligence aren't condemned, cos apparently Trump is a people's champion. Bringing it back to football, Nuttell's disgraceful using of Hillsboro isn't worth a mention it seems. No, cos his UKIP bedfellow Farage is a people's champion according to these types against the power elite of the BBC and the Guardian. Would be better to stick to AFC on here, but this sort of skewed, hateful right wing propaganda should be shown up for what it is. - Post No. 103982

jeff wright  11:13am 15th Feb 2017

Very funny Exeter . hSo how is Trump getting on with his travel ban on Muslim's >? I'm pleased to see though that you are sticking to your non-political views and reasoned argument! It makes sense that only your own reasonable left wing liberal political views and AKb's musings should be allowed on here . So er then just what is the difference between the President of the Chinese Peoples Republic and The President of America that allows Bercow moo moo ... to let the Commie Chairman address the house and Trump not to do so. Apart from the little matter of the Commie Chairman tortures and kills opponents whereas as far as I am aware Trump does not. By the way Exeter Islam is a RELIGION sunshine and not a RACE . I know that dimwit Bercow seems oblivious to this but I thought that you might have known that. C'est la vie. - Post No. 103984

Exeter Gunner  11:59am 15th Feb 2017

You've made it obvious once again jeff you're incapable of following my posts. There is nothing there about Islam being a religion or race. Get someone else to read it out and explain it to you, I'm done with you. - Post No. 103986

jeff wright  12:48pm 15th Feb 2017

Instead of flouncing off in a pique fit of self rightous indignation Exeter why don't you try and answer my question about why Bercow allowed the murderous Chinese commie Chairman into parliament but refuses to allow Trump in >? Bercow has claimed that Trump is a racist as you also have in previous posts regarding his banning some Muslims .You and AKB do get rather overwrought about Trump you need to calm down a bit there are worse leaders in the world than him,admittedly he is a bit odd ,also more important things to protest about or to take seriously than silly Bercow's smug self interest jumping on the outraged down and out Libs and left wing anti-Trump bandwagon. As I have said before these people are VERY selective in what they protest about.They do love a bit of marching and protesting and banner waving though.All rather silly undergraduate stuff really- they need to grow up and act their ages. - Post No. 103989

Exeter Gunner  15:33pm 15th Feb 2017

Rather than pique, I have neither the time nor patience to walk you through everything step by step, Jeff, but here's a direct response to your question: Because Bercow is a hypocrite. I wouldn't defend him, he's a Tory. It's only because you couldn't follow what I was saying properly you think otherwise from reading my post, Jeff. Your faux-outrage at Bercow fools no one with half a brain though. You're upset with him because he's had a go at one of your heroes in Trump, then you spied another opportunity to have another dig at 'lefty liberals' via the 'communist' Lord of State Capitalism Xi. Trump is racist, sexist, religiously intolerant. He is demonstrably all of these things. Your worldview is cartoon-like and your agenda laughably obvious. I see you, Jeff. I see what you're about. - Post No. 103997

Arseneknewbest  16:07pm 15th Feb 2017

Jeff extreme-right. YOU start these spats with your absurd extremist nonsense, then like a lot of right wing bullies you run a mile and cry foul when challenged. You can't seriously expect to post some of the complete cack that goes on in your head and expect it to remain unquestioned. It's almost like you're on a mission to fill the vacuum left by the suffolk based troll. Why not re-direct your alt-right wisdom to the guardian where there are hundreds of others with your similarly egregious world view. Your asano material is often worth reading but I'm having second thoughts based on the dire stuff that you right about your reactionary views. "Yawn" as you might say... - Post No. 104001

jeff wright  19:33pm 15th Feb 2017

Thanks for the comments but still no answer to my question from either of you pair of why it's okay for Bercow - who is suddenly from just earlier on today becoming persona non grata and a Tory again - to welcome the President of the Chinese Communist party to parliament but not Trump .Just really a load of old hysterical waffle from you pair with the usual condescending comments that elevate yourselves to intelligencer status while at the same time pointing out how dumb I AM ! Yoyu two must see right wing bogey men everywhere How do you think that Corbo will get on with the Stoke by election >? I read reports that he has been warned to stay away by the local Labour Party because he would cost them votes , surely not ... You couldn't make it up. - Post No. 104007

Exeter Gunner  23:05pm 15th Feb 2017

Jeff, I answered your question directly in my last response. Yes I did think you were dumb but you're even thicker than I thought. - Post No. 104033

jeff wright  11:14am 16th Feb 2017

No Exeter you did not answer my question you just changed tack on Bercow who your pal AKB earlier claimed was a man of integrity ! You were supporting the hypocrite Tory Bercow when it suited you but after I pointed out that there is more holes in the claims of his alleged integrity than you find in a block of Swiss cheese you you then insulted him when you couldnt answer the question of why he allowed the commie chairman of China into the house but banned Trump.Once you start insults you have lost the argument. Anyway, old chap I will answer the question that you and AKB can not do for you. Bercow is coming to the end of his acrimonious and corrupt tenure has speaker of the house being able to shout out ,order ,order, order... at squabbling MP's acting like school kids , is all that is required for the job .So Bercow used the row over Trump's travel ban to gain himself some publicity.I doubt that the moron gives a toss about Muslims in reality . Like his former wife Sally though having gained some notoriety a lucrative future in Reality TV awaits the clown. As The Man From Ucle said said we could soon see Bercow doing an Ed Balls on Strictly or even appearing on Big Brother ,the 'celeb' version of course that Sally once graced with her presence Have a nice day now ! - Post No. 104059

Exeter Gunner  12:38pm 16th Feb 2017

Again you've got it wrong, Jeff. I can't believe i have to break it down for you to this degree, but here goes: I never supported Bercow, I simply pointed out that you were unhappy with him because he'd criticised your hero Trump. I called Bercow a 'hypocrite' precisely because of his being fine with various other unpleasant leaders like the Chinese one. You're just too stupid to follow a line of reasoning properly - just as you're too stupid to see that AKBest and I aren't sharing exactly the same argument. We just both think you're a moron. Just as you lack the insight to see why having a reality denier, a man who dismisses facts and evidence and simply makes decisions based on what he 'believes', as President of supposedly the world's greatest democracy and world's most powerful nation, is anything for anyone to get really worried about. You simply can't see what the implications of policies being based on falsehoods are, you lack the intellect to make those connections, so you sneer at those who do as undergraduates making a fuss about not much at all. Then get upset and try to claim the moral high ground when the dismissals and sneering and insults you hurl out at great swathes of people get turned back on you. But this is a waste of time - you won't be able to follow what I'm saying here. In you mind, as long as you have the last word, you've won the argument. It's like arguing with a kid in the playground. - Post No. 104073

jeff wright  14:30pm 16th Feb 2017

Oh hum, just another load of senseless rhetoric there from you Exeter .Were you even aware that Bercow when you were supporting him was once a Tory and according to you is one again >? You have completely lost the plot regarding what this discussion is or was about and have gone off on a tangent of abuse like a Tiger Moth bi-plane spreading manure randomly about on a field of turnips.You supported Bercows comments on Trump and his banning of him from parliament because you believed that he was doing it for the right reasons. So come off it now with all of this sanctimonious clap-trap that you are indulging in.You were wrong about Bercow so why not just hold up your hands and say so .Bercow is an opportunist using the attempted Trump Muslim travel ban , that I believe was just a gesture anyway from Trump to try and appear to be carring out his manifesto pledges- he is already well down in the popularity polls . Silly moo Bercow the future Reality TV star used Trump's travel ban attempt for his own ends .End of and by the way sunbeam you don't need to be a genius to understand your posts -stop flattering yourself is my advice and get a reality check because you obviously need one. - Post No. 104090

Exeter Gunner  15:23pm 16th Feb 2017

Of course it's 'senseless rhetoric' to you, jeff. You haven't enough sense to comprehend it. It's both annoying and amusing to be so misrepresented by someone without the brainpower to actually follow what I say, even when I walk him through it in baby steps. How old are you? I get the impression from previous posts somewhere in your 50s. How have you got this far in life? Who ties your shoelaces in the morning? Keep digging, keep embarrassing yourself, jeff. - Post No. 104093

jeff wright  16:58pm 16th Feb 2017

Exeter the only one embarrassing themselves is you . Your sudden change of direction on Bercow who you praised a couple of weeks ago after his banning of Trump is fooling know one .I can read and read your Bercow is an hypocrite and a Tory comments that you made after I had posted about Bercow's previous allowing the murderous President of the Chinese commie party to speak to the house and had happily posed smiling with the odious Xi Jinping .Prior to this you had never passed any comments on Bercow being a Tory hypocrite. So I suggest that you give it a rest chum .Your obvious obsession with Trump is rather odd though then again as the Actress said to the Bishop,it takes all sorts. - Post No. 104101

Exeter Gunner  20:27pm 16th Feb 2017

Jeff, point me to a comment I have made actually supporting Bercow. And 'a couple of weeks ago' Bercow hadn't even made his comment on Trump. You're not just making this up as you go along are you, Jeff? But if you're so sure, I'll await the providing of quotes from myself or an apology. I'm waiting. - Post No. 104113

Issue #269 - Out Now!

Gooner Editorial

15th January 2018

Being muscled off the ball by Bournemouth is like being mugged by your grandma

Online Ed: Another poor Arsenal display on the road just another signpost as we near the end of the Wenger era