On Jens Lehmann’s return to Arsenal

By Kevin Whitcher

What contribution can former keeper make to Arsène's coaching setup?

Interesting one this. Jens Lehmann has joined the club’s coaching staff, but not as simply another goalkeeping coach (though God alone knows what he thinks of Gerry Peyton). There is great enthusiasm amongst some fans who believe we will see the Jens Lehmann we witnessed as a player, bollocking team-mates and taking no nonsense from anyone. There are visions of half-time dressing downs in the changing room after insipid first halves.

Lehmann t-shirt on sale for £4.99 – see below

Sorry to be the party pooper, but since departing Arsenal as a player for the second time in 2011, Lehmann has been totally diplomatic when it comes to the club and the manager. He wouldn’t be anywhere near Wenger’s backroom team if he was going to speak up and make much needed waves, like reminding Mesut Ozil the value of a tackle for example.

Remember when we thought Steve Bould was going to sort a few people out? He drummed Alex Song out of the club, but was restrained from any similar altercations soon enough by being told to pipe down in tandem with his work on the defence being reduced. He was in danger of becoming too influential and taking credit away from the main man.

One other thing to remember is that when players become managers they do not always behave the same way they did on the field. George Graham was known as ‘Stroller’ when he was in the first team, due to his laconic style. In the manager’s office, that nickname was never heard, he became ‘Gadaffi’.

Speaking about the appointment, Lehmann said, “I spoke to Wenger. There were then two more talks, in which I told him what I can contribute. I am the only new guy in the coaching staff, so I will listen a lot and keep my eyes open. My place will also be more up on the stands than down on the bench, I suppose. I hope to contribute positively with this."

No place on the bench from the looks of things then, but a seat next to Boro Primorac in the directors’ box. In fairness to Lehmann, his organizational abilities in terms of the players in front of him was a big factor in the Invincibles season, and he martialled the central defence of Senderos and Toure that kept a clean sheet to win the 2005 FA Cup and go on an impressive run to the Champions League final a season later. So he could make a significant contribution, if his advice was heeded / encouraged.

Then again, back to Steve Bould, some of the defending last season hardly bore the stamp of the famous back four hallmark. So the odds are that Jens will be another in a long line of Arsene’s ‘Yes men’, sad as I am to say it. He will most likely learn what he can from the way things are done at the club, before moving on in a year or two’s time to somewhere he will have greater input.

There have also been extra appointments in the fitness and legal departments, but it seems that no-one has been held accountable for the consistent failings of recent years. No-one has suffered the ignominy of the chop. ‘Catalyst for change’, anyone?

Summer T-Shirt Sale Continues - In memory of the good times, we’ve dug out what remains of the goonershirts stock of Jens t-shirts – see image above - and there aren’t many (in fact only Small, Medium and Large sizes remain) but these are classic items. When they’re gone, they’re gone. These are on sale at the knockdown price of only £4.99 each with free postage (UK only). If you are interested, then drop us an email at goonershirts@gmail.com with your requested size, name and address and we’ll give you details of how to pay – which will be via PayPal or online bank transfer. We’ll be plugging these on the Gooner Twitter account too.

14th July 2017 10:49:21


Comments and Reaction

User comments on this article are now closed. If you want to continue the debate, why not do so on the Gooner Forum.

TonyEvans  11:16am 14th Jul 2017

Depressing reality that each and every possible positive always spirals backwards once the Wenger factor comes in to play. Lehmann is a prime example - on the face of it he is the much needed tough guy to sort out our pampered pansies but, as you say Kevin, once he has been fully 'emasculated' by Wenger he may as well go and join Steve Bould putting the cones out! Also I picked up on the last thread that Lacazette was played on the wing on his debut! Here we go again with Wenger reducing our new strikers effectiveness considerably, if that is repeated long term. It always comes back to Wenger, destroying any hope for something better - the not so great dictator! - Post No. 108395

Wardy  11:27am 14th Jul 2017

Depressingly accurate post, anyone thinking next season will be any different than the last 4/5 seasons needs a reality check ..... still 100% sure i cancelled my membership correctly ...... I pray i'm wrong and hope i witness a season full of FA Cup final style performances (how good was that day), but i suspect we'll see more of the same shambolic, half hearted efforts that will ensure we're miles off winning a title but in touch with a 4th place trophy - Post No. 108396

The Man From UNCLE  11:41am 14th Jul 2017

The penultimate paragraph: "Some of the defending last season......" could be rewritten as "All of the defending last season." - Post No. 108397

Alsace  11:53am 14th Jul 2017

I think that I have arrived at a new low. Whilst I have on two occasions managed to lay off my tickets for two whole seasons, i no longer believe it fair to inflict this on the unsuspecting. So I approach the season wondering whether I shall actually bother to go at all. I go to see my friends really. There is no end in sight. Like General Franco, only death can end Wengers rule. Time to lay down some champagne for his departure, by whatever cause. Goodness me how I detest him. There are of course genuinely evil men who one wishes gone for the good of mankind, but Wenger is somehow worse than that. He is like a chronic condition. The caliper twisting the limbs of Arsenal Football Club - Post No. 108398

Exeter Ex  12:12pm 14th Jul 2017

The 'I suppose' is very telling. He doesn't even know what his role is. Sounds like basically he's being paid to watch from the stands. Nice work for Jens, good PR for Wenger. Nothing 'real' is changing this summer, it's all to dupe the naïve one more time. The same parlour trick played every summer. - Post No. 108399

Yes its Ron  14:15pm 14th Jul 2017

Alsace - about going first to see a few mates and going secondly for footie, its a good point you make. It took me years to realise i was only going for the social side of going first and foremost. I do my 3 -4 away games now per season now and its totally for the day out and has been for some years. Its a good mindset to reach as im rarely to never disappointed by the results, esp in the games i see v the bigger Clubs, so its just as well i never expect anything isnt it! One of our number (there are 5 of us usually) still gets p----d off at heavy defeats and im not sure he ll ever learn to shrug it off and laugh! After this last 7 years you would think he was as immune as the others and myself are. Needless to say we wind him up and he goes barmy saying we 'dont care enough and cant understand why we go at all'. Hes quite right and we cant understand it either!! - Post No. 108400

equalizer  15:03pm 14th Jul 2017

He'll toe the Wenger Party line or his employment will be terminated. There's little doubt that he's a passionate individual so is very unlikely to last long under the the autocrat who doesn't allow any dissent - Post No. 108401

Moscow Gooner  16:40pm 14th Jul 2017

Wenger certasinly managed to put Gazidis back in his box - an the idea that he(G) might resign, when he has such a cushy number and no backbone, was quickly dispelled. For the next two seasons we will underachieve, but Wenger will of course get further extensions because it will all be down to the ´toxicity´of the atmosphere at the Emirates. I think that the man is now nurturing a deep (and of course very unhealthy for him personally) hatred of the support; he could seek therapy, he could move on, he could retire - but I think he will aim to feed this antipathy by remaining in post until the day he dies. Selling Sanchez to City (or better still Chelsea) would probably give him a degree of sadistic pleasure as well.... - Post No. 108404

Yes its Ron  16:57pm 14th Jul 2017

MG - i can see why you say that about a deep lying annoyance about being criticised. The pesky fans arent as shackled as all of the backroom and coaching staff are they and wont be fettered. I can see AW being irked about that too. To be honest, i dont any of the players, Coaches or owners have any time for the fans anywhere these days. They're customers and football isnt adept at keeping customers content. They are new to that game. To people in football , fans are a bloody nuisance despite the nauseating comments they make about their 'wonderful best fans in the World' from time to time when they need to arse crawl up to them to curry a bit of favour.The whole thing and game is pretty sickening really. To be honest though, football fans have always been seen as a necessary nuisance, but in todays game theyre not even really needed save other than to make the TV look good broadcasting with full stadia. Its cruel but today, fans who go to see these PL clubs regularly are mugs in truth. The Clubs dont care a jot for them, but love the colour of their money buying all of the garbage merchandise. Arsenal are a prime example. As long as the seats are sold, they'd be happy to play in that bowl totally empty every match. think of the cash they d save on Police and stewards and general admin costs. - Post No. 108405

mbg  17:10pm 14th Jul 2017

Yes Kevin lots of getting moist regarding mad Lens mostly among the AKB's (it doesn't take much) but others know better it's going to make no difference whatsoever to this out of date over the hill setup, anyone who thinks it will is just another deluded AKB, he's just another nodding dog yes man. Lehmann needs no anger management whatsoever and if he still did and still had a voice he'd be nowhere this club TOF wouldn't have him about the place and if he forgets himself and starts speaking out of turn he'll be gone quicker than a fart in a gale, he's just another yes man luvvie who kept stumm when the weasel was quite rightly getting flak and hadn't the Balls to speak out and say what he really thought, (which I bet was just like the rest of us and others did) in the hope one day he'd be taken into the fold,(just like other ex player kiss arse luvvies) and low and behold it's paid off here he is another wengerite luvvie on board and money for old rope, with no power whatsoever, assistant to dead but hasn't the wit to stiffen Gerry peyton if he's lucky. We want wenger out. - Post No. 108406

mbg  17:37pm 14th Jul 2017

TonyEvans, good post, all the those getting moist about Lacazette also have been brought back down to earth pretty sharpish (regardless of his goal against third fourth raters)with TOF playing him out of position on the wing that says and tells us all (as if we didn't know already) a good player already well on his way to be ruined by an old arrogant has been manager, Lacazette soon to become a Ladyette. - Post No. 108407

Moscow Gooner  19:01pm 14th Jul 2017

Yes it´s Ron - probably better just to generate a full house crowd by CGI these days? And the soundtrack could then be a continuous Óne Arsene Wenger..... ´ad infinitum. - Post No. 108408

John F  21:02pm 14th Jul 2017

Club have the same regard for fans as the big energy companies do for their customers.With all the extra cash coming in Clubs had a golden opportunity to reward match going fans by drastically reducing admission prices instead it is all ending up in millionaires back pockets.The ridiculous transfer fees being paid for average players this summer is pure greed.50mil for Walker is madness and 75mil for Lukaku a good striker but worth about 25mil.I hope the bubble bursts and with the reported 60% of fans watching some games on illegal streams it may just happen. - Post No. 108410

GoonerRon  21:23pm 14th Jul 2017

@ mbg - how is our record signing, who is a striker, scoring within about 10 minutes of coming on bringing people down to earth? I don't know about you, I see it as a positive. It's the first pre-season game for crying out loud, maybe we are looking at a number of options before the season starts, including positions/formations etc. Get a grip. - Post No. 108411

Paulward  21:35pm 14th Jul 2017

Weng seems to be getting an easy ride this summer, creating an illusion of change and new purpose by signing a left back on a free, an admittedly decent striker and basically doing nothing at all regarding his coaching staff.My guess is that's our lot in terms of players, unless Sanchez goes in which case he'll probably be forced to buy Lemar or Mahrez to appease those of us still daft enough to buy season tickets.If anybody thinks this is going to be enough to take us from fifth place to first I've yet to meet them. Looks more like complacency than change to me. - Post No. 108412

mbg  0:20am 15th Jul 2017

That certainly woke someone up from their wet dreams, I guess realisation is starting to set in already. wenger out - Post No. 108413

mbg  0:38am 15th Jul 2017

Paul ward, the skinny weasel has been getting an easy ride every fooking season mate, his wengerite wet dreamers see to that, he's also being creating an illusion/illusions for years now, around thirteen and his biggest illusion of all would put Dynamo to shame, that he's a football manager. We want wenger out. - Post No. 108414

GoonerRon  8:51am 15th Jul 2017

The only realisation setting in for me is that we've had a pretty good summer so far. Only you could find a negative in our record signing scoring a goal within 10 minutes of his debut. - Post No. 108415

equalizer  10:44am 15th Jul 2017

@Paulward, fifth place to first? Even Wenger and his pleb supporters don't believe that. Fourth place and a ride on the CL gravy train the following season will be seen as a wonderful achievement for plucky little Arsenal - Post No. 108416

TOOAW  16:20pm 15th Jul 2017

Very pleasing performance today. I believe that the attacking strengths are very evident. Holding will certainly get more game time this season, so all in all a season which will result in more silverware. 2 more signings I feel will result in a very decent squad of players. Future is bright for the red and white..... well, maybe not for a few bores. - Post No. 108417

mbg  17:41pm 15th Jul 2017

Have you heard the latest delusional diarrhoea from the cuckoos gob ? the reason for the fans turning against him and wanting him out was because he delayed his announcement to stay as it brought uncertainty and criticism (no not because he's an old has been embarrassment, and the biggest embarrassment in the clubs history, who has guided the club to the biggest humiliations and embarrassments and defeats etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, in the clubs history)he says it affected the team performance it wasn't him though oh no of course not, he says but he remained focused throughout, what the f***k on god only knows, he says he should have announced it earlier as if we actually wanted him to stay and everything's now alright,(nothing further from the truth you old fooking weasel) what an arrogant c**t. We want wenger out. - Post No. 108418

Bard  18:10pm 15th Jul 2017

I struggle to understand the rationale behind the occasional posts from Gooneron TOOAW and the like. After all the debacles of recent seasons I would of thought it was blindingly obvious that the common factor in our failure to compete properly is the manager. How new players, whoever they are, translates into hope for the new season defies logic. His recent interviews which celebrate the fact 'that nothing has changed' are a recipe for more failure. - Post No. 108419

mbg  18:12pm 15th Jul 2017

TonyEvans, i'm surprised holier than thou granpa Walton hasn't come down from waltons mountain to critise and pull you up on the use of the word Pansies, after all did he not say he's always checking and keeping an eye on us, (as if that makes him important or something, maybe in his own mind LOL) I guess his routers down again or he's just very selective in who he tries to pull up, lol. wenger out. - Post No. 108420

Cyril  19:06pm 15th Jul 2017

Great posts, particularly dissecting Wenger comments. I'm trying so hard to get onside with and soften my approach to him and his change of formation has made a difference as he is willing to try to make the players at his disposal more expansive. That's fine. However, his latest comments and the dig at the end of the season at the fans are not on. A wise commentator on a media debate when asked to comment and agree on a one sided slaying of a person, said "no, I'm not willing to comment on this as that person is not here to defend himself". Ofcourse that person is the less happy fans in our case. There is just no right of reply. His comments suggest that we, the fans are the enemy. It's just offensive and this is one of many reasons why fans are so frustrated. It's like Kafka with Wenger. You open one door and think you are getting somehwere, then to realise, there are a series of other unending doors that need unravelling. As a fan , I am really growing tired of this! - Post No. 108421

TOOAW  20:41pm 15th Jul 2017

@ bard. I fully respect your opinion but I feel your attitude towards the club/manager is one that is poisened by your hatred and vitriol concerning one man. Fine, let it out but if a certain individual feels that you are wrong. Take it, get over it, move on. My opinion is, and has always been. Be it whether it's on the tube, in the pub, in the stadium. Wenger is the man in charge. He's brought you, us, them great times along with **** times. That's Arsenal. It was before he was around and it will be so after he's gone. Future is bright for the red and white. - Post No. 108422

CORNISH GOONER  20:55pm 15th Jul 2017

Just ordered my advance copy of Arthur's forthcoming book from Amazon - hope it is a full english translation. It's something like "my life dans le footie - talking testicules". - Post No. 108423

GoonerRon  23:04pm 15th Jul 2017

@ Bard - the rationale for my post was quite simple - how can our record signing scoring within 10 minutes of his 'debut' be a negative as mbg was trying to portray. That's it. I know some on here can't see a modicum of positivity in anything to do with Arsenal - that's their prerogative - I personally choose to try and still enjoy it all a bit. - Post No. 108424

Roy  0:10am 16th Jul 2017

Familiarly depressing isn't it Kev ? The relevant reference is in your paragraph, LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY. It has been allowed to spread through the club like a cancer, finally ending in our dropping out of the CL which, lets face it, didn't take a genius to work out that it was coming. The catalyst for change ( how I now hate that statement ) should have been in 2014 which is when AW should have been told his services were no longer required. And every sane fan and their dog knows it. - Post No. 108425

Paulward  6:56am 16th Jul 2017

So obvious that the team's weaknesses are central defence and central midfield, Wengers response is to buy a left back and a centre forward! The man never seems to learn, we concede too many goals to win league titles and neither Kalanic or Lacazzette are going to change that . - Post No. 108426

Exeter Ex  11:36am 16th Jul 2017

GoonerRon - I thought the 'negative' was made quite clear: Wenger played Lacazette on the wing. That suggests he's going to continue to play players out of position. It further implies he's been bought as Sanchez's replacement and that Giroud will continue as CF. These are not good signs, however Arsene fans may try to spin them. And scoring against some low level Aussie side in some pre-season friendly isn't anything to get too excited about I'm afraid. There's a fine line between positivity and delusion, but believe whatever you need to believe. What I do wonder at is why you continue to try and engage and get upset by a clear hardliner like mbg. Doesn't this spoil your 'enjoyment'? - Post No. 108427

Bard  16:22pm 16th Jul 2017

TOOAW; I dont hate Wenger never have.He was a good manager in his first tenure but I think the power has gone to his head and clouded his judgement. His signing a new contract has nothing to do with his belief that he can take Arsenal to the next level or even maintain the level we are at and everything to do with the fact that he has nothing else in his life and he cant give it up. The up side is that his latest tenure wont last long. When the usual collapse starts, despite having spend a shedload of dosh the protests will crank up to another level and he will either be sacked or will resign - Post No. 108428

Paulward  20:05pm 16th Jul 2017

Difficult to see this season being significantly different to any of the previous 10 to be honest. We needed to clear out the deadwood in the squad and spend significant money, aswell as shaking up the backroom staff, none of which has happened. The negative atmosphere that enveloped the club in February and March is bound to return as soon as we have a bad run,and looking at our tricky start that could be sooner rather than later. What happens when the protests and flyovers start again ? How long can Wenger keep riding it out? - Post No. 108429

TOOAW  20:59pm 16th Jul 2017

@ bard. For the record my friend. I don't believe for one minute that the protests were worthy of anything. West Ham at home proved that. He signed a further 2 year contract irrelevant of the few 100 that sometimes turned up. The Arsenal fan base is not the fan base of 1980's. Neither is football in general. Get used to it that Wenger has full control of our club and I personally don't see that as a bad thing. - Post No. 108430

mbg  21:49pm 16th Jul 2017

I see we've conceded our first comical goal of the season (the first of many under TOF no doubt) from nine yards out, with eleven men on the line against the world class Sydney Warriors, I wonder was our record signing involved, I suppose one could look upon that positively as getting them out of the way before the season started, yeah right. wenger out - Post No. 108431

markymark  22:19pm 16th Jul 2017

TOOAW - thought you'd like to know I hate him. The AISA gathering was very divided with Gazidis having to plead for calm. Graham Perry tried to filibust and got booed off. Most people I spoke to including a journo felt that whether he's given 2 years or 10 years the result will be the same as in, if he f's up a title charge again he's gone. The title challenge all the way is now expected. I do wonder what you'll do once he's gone. I've got a nice bottle of champagne waiting. - Post No. 108432

GoonerRon  22:29pm 16th Jul 2017

@ Exeter - Lacazette wasn't playing in the wing, he was playing as an inside left behind the striker with a wingback outside. He's played as a 10 and across the frontline before. He played as an inside right in the next game and may start as a 9 against Bayern. Surely pre-season is the ideal time to see how chemistry with other players in different areas of the pitch may work? You're right, Lacazette's goal against some low level Aussie side in some pre-season friendly isn't anything to get too excited about and, conversely, him not being played as a 9 in such a game isn't worth getting bent out of shape over either. And FYI mbg doesn't upset me, I actually feel a bit bad for him to be honest. I guess somewhere in the past he enjoyed supporting Arsenal so it's sad he can't take any pleasure whatsoever from following the club now. He's a good reminder for me to continue trying to be positive so I don't end up quite so bitter. - Post No. 108433

Exeter Ex  10:39am 17th Jul 2017

GR - on the wing, on the left, whatever, not as a striker. No, it is not an ideal time to try different areas and partnerships. A striker was needed to play as a striker. Wenger has been doing this for years and will do so during the season - he'll play Lacazette all over the place. How do I know this? Because there is such a thing as precedence. I know it's year zero for AKBs each summer but some of us recognise the mountains of evidence from the past. There is such a thing as precedence. As for mbg, it's nice you feel bad for him - so you keep going on at him for his own good then? - Post No. 108434

Moscow Gooner  10:43am 17th Jul 2017

TOOAW - I do agree that we no longer have the fan base of the ´80s: we have too many passive, touristy type fans, who see the Emirates as a shopping excpedition rather than a football stadium. (On another theme, surely as WHL and the Bridge are redeveloped, something will have to be done to make the Emirates a proper football stadium, eg by tearing out the club level and creating single tier stands.) But when you say the protests didn´t count I can´t agree: after all AW blamed our failure to win the league - and the Champions League(!) - on the ´toxic atmosphere´. They did clearly get under AW´s skin and long may they continue - until the old fraud (and his die hard supporters) have been driven out of our Club. Let´s start with Leicester on 11 August... - Post No. 108435

markymark  11:00am 17th Jul 2017

Moscow Gooner - I agree as Gazidis admitted the fanbase is divided which means of course the board accept it as well. This was the result of the protests plus 2 speakers absolutely rollicking Ivan. Judging by the momentum behind them I suspect that a sticky 2 month protest could create even larger protests. We should remember that Wengo chose to bitterly hit out prior to the Cup Final so the good news is that it does permeate his layer of arrogance. - Post No. 108436

TOOAW  17:02pm 17th Jul 2017

@moscow. I don't believe that the protests made an iota of difference to any one at the club. The fundamental thing was Wenger's contract and the protests were a small sideshow for the press. Come on, the West Ham protest showed what could be done and it put the protesters in a very dim light. It is good through that a differing of opinion is good for the Arsenal. @markymark. I fear for your sanity my friend. You claim to hate Wenger... Fine.... Each to their own. Boycott the club.... Fine... Don't put any money in... Fine... But do you put money in. YES.and have you boycotted the club. NO. Try to be consistant and wear your new shirt with pride. - Post No. 108437

mbg  17:18pm 17th Jul 2017

Bard, I don't mate, it's because die hard wengerites like him, and others, just can't bear and just hate anyone saying anything negative about their messiah, and have to defend him even when it's the truth, they think it/this makes them better supporters. wenger out. - Post No. 108438

MAF  17:40pm 17th Jul 2017

Guardiola admits he misused Sanchez at Barcelona ‘He played really good in Barcelona but normally when you play with (Lionel) Messi all the players beside him are not at his level. I think the position Arsenal are using him as a striker, in front, it is perfect for him. In Barcelona maybe I didn’t help him too much because he played wide. He can do that but he is better between the lines, closer to the goal. In some moments he played there, especially one game against Chelsea in the Champions League semi-finals. He played as a striker and after 40 minutes we went 2-0 up but it was an unlucky game and we lost and Chelsea reached the final. He can play there and in several positions – left, right. He is a fighter in spirit, he is a character, he is a winner. He is a class, class player and now he is playing really well.’ - Post No. 108439

equalizer  18:18pm 17th Jul 2017

I think the protests rattled Wenger big time, as evidenced in his bitter pre- cup final interview. The fact that he didn't have the cajones to go out on his home pitch after the Everton match, prefering to skulk at the dugout is further evidence. When Sanchez leaves and Arsene FC have a start to the season that resembles 2011/12 and he turns into his trademark nervous wreck then the pressure will be on him big time. I say stay on his back, the protest will grow. A repeat of Stoke train station on occasion wouldn't go amiss either - Post No. 108440

TOOAW  22:00pm 17th Jul 2017

@equiliser. Point taken but hatred for the manager is a losing battle. FAcup winners yet again. The mighty team down the road would love our history and proved yet again they are miles away from us. It will always boil down to the Stoke away train station or United away/ Spurs away.... winning the league. .. by all means pick holes but appreciate the good times. I prefer to announce the positiveness rather than the negativity unlike most on here. @markymark will do the minus/negative posting... Leave the positive support of the Arsenal to me. It's how I will always be. - Post No. 108441

GoonerRon  23:24pm 17th Jul 2017

@ Exeter - on one hand Wenger gets stuck for his inflexibility yet when trying some different things in the prepatory stages of a new season he also gets stick. Yes he has been playing players in different positions for years, sometimes to great effect and sometimes completely not working at all, what's your point? Maybe year zero for some, not others and not me particularly. There were some saying a few years back we'd never win a trophy under our tactically inflexible, parsimonious manager, yet within the last 8 weeks we won the FA Cup using a new formation and blasted our transfer record. All is not perfect with the club, the manager, the squad, the board etc, but I'm still trying to enjoy supporting the club. Perhaps that's why mbg and I clash, as we tend to be diametrically opposed on our outlook. - Post No. 108442

mbg  23:36pm 17th Jul 2017

Exeter, some good posts, you can let the latest moist AKB wengerite to emerge before the new season starts out of your pocket now. We want wenger out we want wenger out. - Post No. 108443

equalizer  9:29am 18th Jul 2017

TOOAW, for me it's not about hating Wenger, it's about loving Arsenal. Its a source of frustration to see the potential of the club being wasted and the same mistakes being repeated over and over because we have an autocratic manager who as you said yourself, has complete control of the club. You say you don't see it as a bad thing. I think you should go away again and think about that, because its just wrong. I don't expect Arsenal to win trophies every season, I just want to see Arsenal using its resources properly and show some ambition. We have always been the most supported club in the biggest city in Europe and have the infrastructure to do so, Wenger has been a massive part of putting that in place but that's done now. Sadly he has been left behind as a football coach to the detriment of the club. The club has become all about him, and just like him in a stasis and beginning to fade. His 'ideas' and 'principles' are holding the club back now. It's time he was gone. - Post No. 108444

Bard  9:52am 18th Jul 2017

equalizer. a good post. This issue about Wenger is boring and interesting at the same time. its boring to keep harping on about the fact that he is no longer a top class manager. There is no real debate about that. What is fascinating to me is the increasing desperation in both manner and language. Last season he looked a complete wreck and his pronouncements were ever more bizarre. Armed with a new contract there is a bounce in his step and yet he proudly announces that nothing has changed. The regime that finished 5th is deemed good enough to put in a title challenge, work that one out if you can. - Post No. 108445

markymark  12:01pm 18th Jul 2017

TOOAW - what I'll do is post the reality of events. As in a manager who has not been able to lift a title in 13 years despite having lavish treatment heaped upon him.. While what you'll do is the Wengo 'love in ' posts that appear after a win and rapidly disappear during times of defeat. You were very quiet during the 6 weeks of total carnage that derailed our title bid. Though to give you your due old Badarse went quiet for an entire season. A little question for you, if Wengo is so good why did Ivan have to plead to AISA members amongst wide scale heckling to unify? Wouldn't be Wenger by any chance would it? - Post No. 108446

Exeter Ex  12:20pm 18th Jul 2017

GR - you and mbg don't 'clash'. He posts anti-Wenger comments not at all directed at you and with you not at all in mind, then due to your sentimental attachment to Wenger, you can't help but respond. That's all that's going on there. The rest of your comment reads like spin. The reality is nothing is really changing, Wenger has said as much. But some are seemingly happy for AFC to be a domestic cup team that battle for a top 4 place. Everton level, in other words. - Post No. 108447

TOOAW  12:48pm 18th Jul 2017

Got to laugh at that one Exeter. It's 15 love to your argument about us turning into Everton. In Wenger's reign we have 15 trophy's to polish the dust off. Everton don't even have to worry about having a feather duster cos there is nothing to keep clean. Clouded judgement I feel. - Post No. 108448

Exeter Ex  13:12pm 18th Jul 2017

TOOAW - the reason you view is like that is because, like all Wenger lovers, you live in the distant past. I am talking about where Arsenal are in the modern era of football. We have been for many years now and will be in the season ahead be battling with the likes Everton for a top 4 place and hoping for a domestic cup run. As this slowly becomes clear you will disappear from this website, to return for the end of season run of decent results when all the big stuff is safely in the rear view mirror. As with all AKBS, you (wilfully or otherwise) don't grasp the concept of precedence, cannot spot trends and don't understand football well enough to see that the Wenger way mitigates absolutely against challenging for the title or doing anything in Europe. - Post No. 108449

Cyril  13:14pm 18th Jul 2017

TOOAW: You didn't mention the glorious Emirates Cup wins. More spin than Warne! - Post No. 108450

Yes its Ron  13:31pm 18th Jul 2017

equalizer - yes, a good post there. The big debate about AW this last few yrs has missed the simple point that changes have to made in any org to keep it vigorous and refreshed, same in industry, retailing and football as well. Its the main reason why the bigger European Clubs change every 2 or 3 yrs, its not always due to the Coach failing or not winning Cups etc. Arsenes time has simply been and gone, football wise as you say and he should really have recognised it. The trouble is that the Club makes so much money and in today's game, thats the all important feature and its why SK has him there, whether we like it or not. Change isnt happening there while they sell the seats, simple as. The modern day Gunners fan (in the main) is happy. The dissenters gestures (most of us on here) towards AWs continuance are nothing more than a gentle grandads fart in a brisk wind in all honesty. All that can occur now is for circumstances to shape up that makes even AW and SK realise that a change of Coach is needed. I dont think AW will stay 2 yrs and i dont believe he intends to. Its a contract of temporary expedience as i see it. - Post No. 108451

GoonerRon  13:42pm 18th Jul 2017

@ Exeter - you accuse me of writing spin in my comment (although it is all factual) then suggest we are battling against Everton, who have never finished above us nor won a trophy since Wenger came to Arsenal. Re: mbg - here's me thinking the comments section was here for people to comment, I didn't realise you had to be specifically addressed by somebody to respond to their post. However, on that basis perhaps you should take a closer look at your involvement in this particular conversation. - Post No. 108452

Bard  13:54pm 18th Jul 2017

Ron the club have done a good job spinning results and ambitions over the years. Arsene has played his part in this. An awful lot of our fans have bought it hook line and sinker. (Although I think they are beginning to set him for what he is). You only have to visit Untold to see how successful the club have been, bleating about refs, money, bias you name it. They congregate under the banner that reads, 'We woz robbed'.The other factor is that the ground is half full of 'fans' who know nothing of the clubs history prior to Wenger at best and who are there for a day trip at worst. As you say as long as they keep paying then things wont change. I am in full agreement. I dont see him lasting the 2 years. - Post No. 108453

Exeter Ex  13:56pm 18th Jul 2017

GR - you employ the language of PR spin ('blasted... in the last 8 weeks...') to make things seem so much more dynamic and exciting than they really are. It's Gazidis-like. And anybody else can respond to any comment they like, I was simply pointing out that you and mbg don't 'clash' as you claimed. It's all one sided on your part, and it's very clear why you do it. I've also pointed out very clearly why Everton are our competition. Perhaps you feel it is Man C, Man U, Chelsea... or indeed anybody else who might put in a title challenge, like Leicester did? Let's see, once again, whose right in the season ahead, shall we? I wonder how many more seasons of evidence will be needed? - Post No. 108454

Yes its Ron  14:01pm 18th Jul 2017

Lads, its not so far removed from reality to suggest that we have dropped a ratchet or two be now vying with Everton for 4th. Im pretty sure Everton see themselves as credible challengers to ASL nowadays, though i think some of the Lukaku cash (great sale for them as he isnt that fantastic in my view) they're spending is in my view going on some pretty ordinary performers. Can Gunners get back into top 4 this time around? I think they ll need Liverpool to flop to do it and that s maybe not going to happen. Will Spurs blow up and let us back in? I dont think so. Its these happenings that we need now. Everton maybe need some flukes, kind decisions and a fair wind as well but they're surely not so far from AFC now as things stand. - Post No. 108455

TOOAW  14:13pm 18th Jul 2017

@Exeter. Keep em coming my friend. I'm crying with laughter. Next one I suppose is that the mighty team in white down the road have overtaken us and we are hiding precariously in their shadow. Good for a laugh if nothing else. Could be 16 love in a few weeks. - Post No. 108456

GoonerRon  14:22pm 18th Jul 2017

@ Exeter - breaking (is that word ok) our transfer record is dynamic and exciting, especially in the media fuelled modern day football. It's not spin. And it's not one way in respect of mbg, if you post in a public forum you're fair game to be challenged, criticised, congratulated etc. We could be challenging with Everton but the precedent set in the last 20 years wouldn't necessarily suggest it to be the case. I feel we're going full tilt at the title, that was made quite clear when Wenger's contract was announced. I think we've got a good shout as no CL means we have a clear priority for the season, so I expect big rotation for the EL. Let's see what happens. - Post No. 108457

Exeter Ex  14:24pm 18th Jul 2017

TOOAW - are you referring to the team that finished 11 points ahead of AFC last season? You keep lobbing them up, I'll keep smashing them away. - Post No. 108458

Exeter Ex  14:44pm 18th Jul 2017

GR - "full tilt at the title.. a good shout" There we go. This is what I was referring to. You call this being positive. I call it delusion. But you'll be saying the same in a year's time about 18/19 after the inevitable happens. The reality of what AFC are under Wenger will never impinge, will it. - Post No. 108460

TOOAW  15:52pm 18th Jul 2017

So let's dissect Exeter's latest comments pointing out that, in theory, history doesn't matter and it's all about modern era and latest results. So here goes. From Ex's rationale, we are currently the best team in England. How?? I hear you ask. Well, in our last competitive match we beat the champions of England quite comfortably and raised a trophy to boot. Now call me an old fool if you like but it's game, set and match. - Post No. 108461

Exeter Ex  16:16pm 18th Jul 2017

TOOAW - all you've just done through your use of extreme hyperbole and ludicrous exaggeration is illustrate your total inability to argue against the genuine points raised. - Post No. 108462

Moscow Gooner  16:18pm 18th Jul 2017

The optimists on here are saying he won´t last the two years - my concern is that he´ll last another twenty... And that´s why the protests have to keep going and (of course) intensify. How long did it take to bring the USSR down? I think it all started with six dissidents in Red Square in 1977. Ultimately we will win - because even Wenger is not immortal... As for the coming season: the Scum will suffer from playing at Wembley - mid table for them; so perm four from Chelsea, City, Liverpool, Utd and ourselves. And I think we´ll finish 5th. Look for a surprise team to be up there as well - maybe Newcastle off the momentum of last season. And Everton will go close. WHU could have a significantly better season now that they´ve shaken off that ´first-season-in-a-souless-bowl´effect. - Post No. 108463

Yes its Ron  17:21pm 18th Jul 2017

GR - I think to be 'full tilt'at a title, we need a seriously good player bought to boss/dominate central midfield, a top quality RB and CB, plus keep Sanchez for at least another 12 mths. I cant see us getting a sniff at a title without such a central middle man. Ozil, though im not a great fan of his is crying out for such a player. To get the best from Ozil, he needs his 'insurance man' in the middle. Hes never had it at Arsenal. The same applied to Fabregas. Cesc had to be all things to all people when at Arsenal as he had to play with dross like Hleb and Song and and Flamini. Cesc was wasted before he succumbed to injuries and his full potential was never reached. Its happened to Ozil. As we are, its implausible to think Arsenal can win the title. Neither the players nor the mentality around the Club is geared to that in N7. Sanchez and all of out top players who've left this last 10 years knew it and said as much. Has anything really changed? If so, what has changed? - Post No. 108464

A Cornish Gooner  17:37pm 18th Jul 2017

TOOAW You are indeed an old fool. - Post No. 108465

Alsace  18:26pm 18th Jul 2017

I think we should now refer to Wenger's apparatus of occupation as "The Reich". It has everything going for it. A messianic figure from the fringes of the Volksdeutsch. Adoring blind supporters. Violence towards dissent. Slavish devotion to a predetermined set of actions no matter the evidence that it isn't working. Constantly blaming others for ones own faults, particularly the ordinary people who have " betrayed" him. Sound familiar ? Lastly I love the idea that Wenger and Gazidis and apparently some of the contributors to this site believe that we should all kiss and make up and let the old fool destroy everything Arsenal stands for. Wenger is a disease and only hard work and action can get rid. Get rid we will. Then we can enjoy ourselves again as his devotees take poison in grief. - Post No. 108466

mbg  18:40pm 18th Jul 2017

I see that complete waste of fresh air wally and smoking Jack have found their voices again after a bout of embarrassing laryngitis, the same diarrhoea as the last eight years of course, I'd swear when the midwife was lifting them up in the operating theatre to smack their arse after they were born they didn't cry but bleated we've learned and going to fight for our places at Arsenal. wenger out and his mouth pieces with him. - Post No. 108467

Paulward  20:06pm 18th Jul 2017

TOOAW : Weng has won 10 trophies, 3 leagues and 7 FA cups in 21 years, the Charity shield is NOT a trophy and I hope no Arsenal fan would embarrass the club by claiming it as one.. Wengers record is good but does not stand comparison with any number of past or present greats, Clough, Paisley, Ferguson or Mourinho for example. - Post No. 108468

markymark  20:13pm 18th Jul 2017

It's been nagging at me what TOOAW's smarm laden and self congratulatory efforts remind me of. Then it came to me it's the Daily Telegraph just prior to the General Election spouting that Labour was finished, victory was certain and what possibly could go wrong? - Post No. 108469

GoonerRon  20:17pm 18th Jul 2017

@ Ron - if there was one position I'd strengthen before the end of the window it would be central midfield. The balance there hasn't been right for some time, although a big part of that has been our wide forwards not being disciplined enough in the transition. In terms of what has changed, the 3-4-2-1 system for me plays much more to the strengths of the current squad and our general attacking ethos. Our FB's are more like WB's and the formation essentially switches out a peripheral player in Theo for another CB. This naturally balances the team, gives us more height at set pieces, better width and leaves us less succeptible to the counter. Lacazette's record suggests he may score some incremental goals for us, Welbeck being available from the start of the season is a plus, Kolasinac looks like an upgrade on Gibbs, the emergence of Holding and fitness of Mertesacker gives us strength in depth defensively, Xhaka and Ramsey's encouraging form at the end of last season, mixed with some Mad Jens winning mentality and better fitness and injury prevention from Mr Burgess, we're good to go! I also think no CL should focus the mind to a single ultimate priority for the season, with rotation more 'accepted' for EL ties we should see players workloads managed more effectively. - Post No. 108470

GoonerRon  20:34pm 18th Jul 2017

@ Exeter - delusion / positivity - it just depends on which side of the fence you stand. You could well be right at the end of the season, and it would be fair play to you. I'm just thankful I can summon some level of excitement about the upcoming season and feel some hope (be it blind, optimistic or valid). - Post No. 108471

TOOAW  20:51pm 18th Jul 2017

@paulward. Ok then, if you wish to split hairs it's 10 - zero to the Arsenal. @Cornish. Less of the old, more of the unswerving, unwavering type please my friend. @Ex. Keep calm lad. It ain't a celebrity show, just a gooner comments section for people to comment. Lastly @markymark. Boycott? Protest? Hatred? Gooner? Not sure if I can take you serious. But it does take all sorts eh MBG. - Post No. 108472

Paulo75  21:05pm 18th Jul 2017

Not sure I agree with the decision to keep Sanchez for the final year of his contract - it looks fairly obvious he wants to go and can imagine the tantrums will start if things pear shaped early doors. Think we should be exploring the Aguero swap option or taking the cash and getting a top drawer central midfield playmaker. Watching Xhaka, Ramsay, Elneny and Coquelin constantly passing the ball sideways was yawn inducing stuff indeed. No cutting edge in midfield - especially if our German Princess didn't fancy it on the day. - Post No. 108473

Bard  7:56am 19th Jul 2017

Gooneron, Ron; I agree with your analysis of our midfield but how many debates have we had over the years about what we need and what actually happens. The most obvious was the keeper debate. For years he wouldnt buy a top keeper when it was obvious we needed one. Instead he kept spinning Almunia as the next best thing. I believe most of our business is just spin to make it appear as though we are really at it. We wouldnt win the title if we had Messi and Ronaldo in our team. Teams replicate the manager, Wenger is weak mentally, poor tactically and always looking for excuses the team is the same. The idea, if true, that he is going to let Sanchez's contract run down to teach him a lesson and lose £50m ludicrous. - Post No. 108474

markymark  9:33am 19th Jul 2017

TOOAW - don't worry friend, sorry litlun, lad, I mean pal. Absolutely no one is taking you seriously. You know you're on a losing wicket when you have to rebut 4 or 5 posters at once. Very reminiscent of Badarse, Jamerson, the mind numbing Amos. They all went the same route. - Post No. 108475

Yes its Ron  10:05am 19th Jul 2017

I feel that the Sanchez thing is developing into another tug of war between AW and the Board. He wants to run his contract down and i reckon the Board would sell him tomrw. I really cant see him being made to stay unless they offer him a massive 'carrot'to do so. Wengers using it a leverage to get the cash to buy the other Fr lad. Another yr from Sanchez would only be good if he wanted to put it in for the Club. If he doesn't,they should sell. He seems 'high maintenance' to me. - Post No. 108476

Exeter Ex  10:10am 19th Jul 2017

Bard - exactly. If supporters genuinely want to see AFC challenge for the title again then they should unite in the stadium and across social media to push for a change of regime, instead of instead of 'summoning up' faux optimism in the face of all evidence just because they want to stay loyal to a manager who's only just told you he places his 'values' above winning. - Post No. 108477

Yes its Ron  10:16am 19th Jul 2017

GR - i hear what you say matey. No CL does shine a different light on things as you say. I also think Xhaka has potential to do well too. Not Ramsey though. He ll never dictate a midfield. I dont think hes good enough. He certainly not robust enough. Showed great promise before his injury back in 08 but hes never been the same since. He d be a decent player for Saints, Albion or a Palace type Club. Arsenal have to have a top marque centre middle man to make things tick. Its the Clubs biggest weakness and has been for 12 years. I think Lacazette will do ok too. They need to hold on to Giroud though in my view. To lose him would be a big mistake. Nobody says it but in my view, keeping Giroud is more vital than keeping Sanchez. The latter being sold at the prices mentioned has to be a reasonable sale? Hes 29 now. We ve maybe had his peak years already? - Post No. 108478

DJW  13:00pm 19th Jul 2017

The reason Sanchez is high maintenance is he gives 100 percent, wants to win things and for some reason expects the same from his team mates. Unlike the bearded wonder Giroud who is a squad player at best and is more concerned with his appearance than the team. I know which player I would want in my squad. - Post No. 108480

Yes its Ron  13:21pm 19th Jul 2017

I hear that DJW, i think he or any player can be 100 pc without being high maintenance. Girouds a bit poncy, of course he is, but hes underrated. The Club has no aerial ability up front apart from him. He wants to commit to the Club. His goals record is very good and off the bench he changes games. He doesn't bleat and scowl at his steam mates every 5 mins either if we dont win and sulk like a big baby. Sanchez isnt a central striker either by any means. Hes quite poor in the middle in fact. Very good player, but hes far from being top marque in my view. He d still be at Barca if he was and the other top euro Clubs would be queuing up for him. Theyre not though are they. I wonder why? I suggest its his personality. - Post No. 108481

mbg  22:34pm 19th Jul 2017

Ron, and don't forget to make himself look good also with the illusion he wanted him to stay, when he probably want's to take the dough all along, it wouldn't be the first time, and of course the AKB's fall for it hook line and sinker, and it's all Sanchez/or whoever the players fault, and wenger the slimy weasel who's grubby fingerprints are all over it comes out smelling of roses yet again. wenger out. - Post No. 108490

Issue #269 - Out Now!

Gooner Editorial

15th January 2018

Being muscled off the ball by Bournemouth is like being mugged by your grandma

Online Ed: Another poor Arsenal display on the road just another signpost as we near the end of the Wenger era