The "Y" Word debate

[goonersid]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24133145

[Robin_L]

Hardly. Cameron's got that one spot on.

[storrmin571]

I think thats a great title, however a little bit of editing is required - "F@@k off Cameron You Wanker and take your greedy nose in trough filthy cronies with you, also on the way out take Nick Clegg and his collaborators, lock the doors behind you, get our money back from the fecking bankers and piss off and stop fecking up the country even more than the previous fecking bunch of eejits did."

[augie]

Personally I think that Cameron is bang on the money IF he gives a commitment not to prosecute opposition fans for using the phrase back at them - I remember us Gooners singing gleefully at the scum fans about "where's your captain gone" (to the tune of dj otzi's song) and there wasn't any racial or religious undertone to our chants but nowadays if we sung it we will be brought to court and probably executed within the week Where do we draw the line ? Will we be prosecuted for signing that "we've got a big fcuking german" ?
Maybe it is easy for me to say all this cos I'm not jewish but imo either you let nobody use the phrase (even in football terms) or you let everybody use it (as long as it isn't meant in a derogatory manner)

[Simon]

I suspect this thread will end up locked, but the most sensible comment in that article comes from the Community Security Trust charity and is worth repeating:

"Ultimately, ridding football of anti-Semitism needs to involve Spurs fans voluntarily dropping the Y-word from their songbook."

[goonersid]

I suspect this thread will end up locked, but the most sensible comment in that article comes from the Community Security Trust charity and is worth repeating:

"Ultimately, ridding football of anti-Semitism needs to involve Spurs fans voluntarily dropping the Y-word from their songbook."

Spot on, it has to be across the board or not at all, why should they be allowed to use it as a way of winding up others, whilst others not being allowed to retort.
Cameron should mind his own fucking Tory business.

[QuartzGooner]

Cameron can speak out on it just as anyone on this Forum can, why is it not his business but it is our business?
This Forum has had several threads on it in the past, and it is now a matter of national media debate.

Cameron is correct in that it is who uses the word and the tone it is used with that determines whether it is being used a term of abuse or a term of "Identity".

Some Spurs fans both Jewish and non-Jewish use it as a football identity.

For some opposition fans it will be only a football based insult, for others it will be a religious insult.

For Jews of East and Central European heritage, outside of and pre-dating modern football, it has a meaning in the Yiddish language of "Upstanding person".

Ultimately if you try to ban the word it throws up farcical situations, would I get chucked out of a ground if I read this newspaper before kick off?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_****

Having said that I prefer the word not to be used at all in connection with football, as it can encourage some opposition fans to take it too far and use all sorts of derogatory words which can and do offend, for example the hostility between Feyenoord and Ajax.

There are many ways to taunt Spurs without using the word, not least that we have won the title at their ground the same amount of times they have won the title ever.

[OneBardGooner]

I think thats a great title, however a little bit of editing is required - "F@@k off Cameron You Wanker and take your greedy nose in trough filthy cronies with you, also on the way out take Nick Clegg and his collaborators, lock the doors behind you, get our money back from the fecking bankers and piss off and stop fecking up the country even more than the previous fecking bunch of eejits did."

[GranadaJoe]

There is a fierce debate within the Jewish community about whether it's Ok or not, so if there can't decide what chance do the rest of us stand.

On Cameron's (and others') point, that if a term is self-referencing it is OK, can we on this forum start referring to ourselves as Gooner ?

(IHH - NO YOU CAN'T!!)

[northbank123]

Political correctness gone mad and all that but I think as long as Spurs fans are still widely using the term, it's going to be thrown back in a hateful manner and will inevitably become conflated with anti-Semitism to some degree.

If we're deciding that the word is worthy of censure then that has to be applied across the board: doesn't really send out a good message to tell people they can't use the word but deem it fine for Spurs fans to continue using it.

[afcforever]

Another shit thread, who gives a fuck.

[Chippy]

Another shit thread, who gives a fuck.

Nobody asked you to read it.

[olgitgooner]

Personally I never use the Y word. But I enjoyed using it to taunt sp*rs fans when I was a teenager on the Northbank.

Not because I was anti Jewish (I've always felt supportive of a group of people who have been persecuted for the last two thousand years or so). It was just a way of winding up the opposition fans. Which is what football was all about in those days.

sp*rs fans have now embraced the Y word as a badge of honour. Fair enough. Gooner was an insult to Gunners in the same way. Another badge of honour.

This is a difficult subject to be subjective about. But what I do know is that if a Jewish person was to refer to me as as a "Goy"....I wouldn't be too bothered about it. Even though it is supposed to be a bit of an insult to any non Jewish person......http://www.thefreedictionary.com/goy

[QuartzGooner]

Olgit

The word Goy is not a derogatory term at all.
It is Hebrew, it simply means "Nation", the plural Goyim meaning "Nations".

It is simply a word meaning someone who is not Jewish.

The link you provided has an incorrect definition.

[DB10GOONER]

Olgit

The word Goy is not a derogatory term at all.
It is Hebrew, it simply means "Nation", the plural Goyim meaning "Nations".

It is simply a word meaning someone who is not Jewish.

The link you provided has an incorrect definition.

Ah, but in everyday usage there are Jews who use "Goy" and "Goyim" in an almost "lighthearted" derogatory way.